OTS 128: Creating Functional Spaces for Students
- Jayson Davies
- Jul 10, 2023
- 39 min read
Updated: Aug 19, 2024
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Welcome to the show notes for Episode 128 of the OT Schoolhouse Podcast.
Are you ready to transform your classroom into an engaging and supportive learning environment?
Join us on this episode, where we explore the topic of setting up the classroom for success with Kelly Wilk-Downs.
Discover important tips and strategies to optimize the learning environment, from creating individual workspaces to mastering sound and lighting. Kelly also introduces the TEACCH method, a tool that benefits not only children with autism and ADHD but all students.
As occupational therapy practitioners, we can collaborate with teachers and administrators to implement these changes and facilitate student learning.
Tune in to hear more about how design affects the classroom environment!
Listen now to learn the following objectives:
Learners will identify strategies for creating individual workspaces that meet the needs of different students.
Learners will identify the benefits of using visual supports, work systems, & sensory strategies within a classroom.
Learners will identify and understand the importance of classroom design in promoting structure and student success.
Guest(s) Bio
Kelly received a degree in Exercise Science from Florida State University and her Occupational Therapy Degree from Barry University in Miami Beach, Florida. Attending a private Catholic College and learning from nuns was a calming experience. She is Certified in the Sensory Integration and Praxis Test and has specialized in working with Autism. Kelly is the developer of Shoe Tying Made Simple and Writing Made Simple products. She has spent most of her career working in the schools where she was responsible for staffing the schools with clinicians, and she also owned her own clinic.
Quotes
"Natural light is always the best." - Kelly Wilk-Downs, OTR/L
“You can grade the program, there's different levels of Support.”
- Kelly Wilk-Downs, OTR/L
"Ask the teacher how it may impact the other students, those are questions that need to be asked ahead of time before you change things up." - Kelly Wilk-Downs, OTR/L
“It all has to be individualized based on the needs of the students… there's a lot of different types of students in the classroom. So you have to take all of that into consideration.” - Kelly Wilk-Downs, OTR/L
"That is part of the reason that occupational therapy practitioners need to be able to move into administration at school districts...so that we can have more impact in this way.” - Jayson Davies, MA, OTR/L
Resources
Episode Transcript
Expand to view the full episode transcript.
Amazing Narrator
Hello and welcome to the OT schoolhouse podcast, your source for school based occupational therapy tips, interviews and professional development. Now to get the conversation started, here's your host Jayson Davies, class is officially in session.
Jayson Davies
Hello and welcome back to another episode of the OT schoolhouse podcast where we dive into the world of school based occupational therapy, and explored a wide range of topics that impact the lives of the students and the teachers that we serve. I'm your host Jayson Davies. And today we have a very special guest joining us today, Kelly Wilk downs and occupational therapist with a passion for design and organization. Kelly is here today to share her expertise on the impact of a well designed and organized based on an individual's well being specifically in the classroom environment. As an occupational therapist, Kelly understands the vital role that an optimized learning environment plays in the development and success of our students. Kelly has honed her skills through years of experience working closely with teachers and administrators to design an organized classroom spaces that meet the unique needs of their students. Not only does she bring her knowledge as an occupational therapist to the table, but she also brings her fascination and love of home remodeling shows, which has influenced her approach to creating functional and aesthetically pleasing learning environments. It's like the school edition of the home edit show here today. In today's episode, Kelly will be discussing her experiences with designing and organizing classroom spaces, emphasizing the importance of individualization based on the needs of the students. We'll also dive into the four main principles of the structured teach methodology, and how it enhances the learning experiences for children, including those with autism. So let's get ready for an enlightening conversation as we tap into Kelly's vast knowledge and creativity. Join me in welcoming Kelly Wilk downs to the OT schoolhouse podcast. Kelly, welcome to the OT schoolhouse podcast. How are you doing today?
Kelly Wilk-Downs
I'm doing great, Jayson, thank you for inviting me.
Yeah, absolutely. It's always great to have someone coming on with experiences in different areas of school based OT. And you know, what I love about school based OT is that I also kind of hate it. But we have to know a little bit about everything. Like we can't just specialize in one thing, right? Like, we can have a student that needs one type of support at 10am. And then at 11am. It's completely different a whole different students. So today, we are here to talk a little bit about setting up the classroom for success. We're going to talk about the structure of the desks a little bit about setting up individual workspaces. And I'm excited to talk to you about that today.
Kelly Wilk-Downs
I am happy to be with you all and hopefully we will impart some good knowledge on your valuable listeners.
Jayson Davies
Yeah. So to get started today, why don't you just share a little bit about where you are in your OT career today?
Kelly Wilk-Downs
Yeah, I'm an op lady, out loud. No, time flies. I am still very active though. I am doing a lot of writing. I run two businesses, I staff charter schools. I've done that most of my career. Well love the charter schools do a lot of that. And I am developing courses and products right now. I'm doing a lot of writing.
Jayson Davies
Wow. Awesome. I have to touch on that charters that you've worked with charters. I mean, that's very different than working in a public school system. If you don't mind before we dive into everything. Just tell us about your experience within a charter school. How has that been slightly different from a normal public school? Yes,
Kelly Wilk-Downs
I love the charters. I love it because there's a little bit more autonomy and you can have you but I've always liked about Jason as being able to control your caseload a little bit more than the public schools. I remember my first job I was a contractor and I had a caseload of 70 kids and 11 schools. And I just didn't feel empowered and my father under spool and was in is in the education business. And I knew that there were ways that I can control my environment a little bit more being the entrepreneur that I am. So I peeled away and started working with the charters and I loved it never really looked back. In fact, I prefer that environment versus the public school.
Jayson Davies
And when you work for a charter school, do you work for one specific school or were you still having multiple schools or how'd that work?
Kelly Wilk-Downs
Well, some of the charters now have really pretty large significant groups and a group charter school may have 10 to 20 charters in a particular state. And once you figure out a month Little you can duplicate the model on just about any to any state within the company. So I have done a bit of that I've had very significant contracts, and then I've had smaller contracts. And the smaller, intimate charter schools are fabulous as well. So
Jayson Davies
Gotcha. Yeah, that's, I know some people that listen to the podcast, they're in charter programs. And they've actually reached out to me, and they asked me for more information about working in charter, and I just don't have that experience. So whenever someone mentions a charter, I always like to ask about it a little bit, because I just don't know. So thanks for sharing that.
Kelly Wilk-Downs
Yeah, you have to follow the same laws. That's another project that I have started working on are the state laws and timelines for every state, because we are hiring and management also, as well as managing some of the special ed requirements. So I'm delving into that as well as I, in my later years of my career.
Jayson Davies
We all got to learn. We all have to at some point, right?
Kelly Wilk-Downs
Yeah, it's great. It's good, awesome stuff.
Jayson Davies
Yeah. So I know a little bit about your background comes from working with the Teach model, the TEACCH model, not TEACH. And so I just want to ask a little bit about that experience.
Kelly Wilk-Downs
Sure. Yeah, absolutely. My experience there I that was one of my first contract gigs on my own. And I couldn't have picked a better spot. And all I know, honestly, I honestly, I was struggling a bit in my career. And the Teach methodology was fantastic. It's fantastic. They were very, very professional. And they just kind of laid it all out and spelled it all out. And it totally made sense when I was there. So let me back up a bit. I do want to say that the Teach program is actually an acronym. And the program was developed in the 1960s. And it's based out of the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. And so the acronym stands for the treatment and education of artistic and communication, handicapped children. It's also an evidence based academic program. They offer extensive trainings and do a lot of research. So it's a great research base program.
Awesome. And so just because, again, I don't know much about the Teach program. Like is it an OT based program? Or is it was it founded, like by academics, and OTs kind of have now worked their way into the system? A little bit?
Kelly Wilk-Downs
Yes, yeah. So it's definitely an academic program. And it was first developed back in the 1960s, by Dr. Eric schoettler. And Dr. Robert Wright color. And it was developed, developed in an academic setting. And so they trained professionals. And of course, when you're there working in chapel, Hill, Carrboro, city schools, they encourage you to go to all of the trainings, which I did do when I was there, it was exceptional. They bring in speakers, Temple Grandin, that was very exciting. She was speaking when I was there. And so they do encourage all the staff that are working with the students, you know, it's a methodology that you incorporate. And to me, it was very sane and rational, it was logical. It coincides with our English language and how we read. So it's a top to bottom left to right presentation, and how you're presenting materials to the students.
Jayson Davies
Gotcha. Okay. And and as we dive into the Teach model a little bit further, remind me, is this particular model designed for one population? Or can it be kind of more used widely?
Kelly Wilk-Downs
to teach methodology can actually be used with various populations? And it definitely is they, they're using it with students that might require mild supports or students that require more involved supports.
Jayson Davies
Great. And so what are the main principles that we will be using within the Teach model to help support all the students within the schools?
Kelly Wilk-Downs
Sure, Jayson. So there's four different areas that that teach methodology focuses in on and the first one being the work systems, and that's where the student will know, what work do I need to do? And also how much work do I need to do? And when do I know when I'm finished with my work? And then finally, most importantly, what do I do next? So the next piece of that number two would be the schedules, the visual schedules. And so using the schedule, it would be clearing up visually, what where do I go and what type of next now strip It is appropriate for me to visually demonstrate how to complete the work. And then do why do I need the easiest, most developmentally quick system? Which is the top to bottom format? Or can I track from left to right? So it's very, it's a graded system. So for kids that might need that gradation, you definitely can structure it that way. So the third thing would be the material structure. And that is, where does the child physically complete the work. And then the fourth thing would be the physical structure. And as to what happens within that space, the aim is might be on the left, that's where the students going to grab their work folders in the middle would be their desk, and then to the right would be their finished pile. And so it's a very graded system, and the Teach method, methodology does allow you to do that as a clinician.
Jayson Davies
Awesome, thank you for sharing those four. And, yeah, moving forward, I know, we're gonna be talking a lot about that physical structure, as we talked about classroom design. But as I listen to you talk about work systems and schedules and materials structure, I think that all plays into the design of a classroom, right, like not just the larger part of the classroom, you know, where the desks are set up. But also, you know, how each individual activity is set up, and are their visual schedules, what do the visual schedules look like. And so I'm excited to dive into all of that. And to dive into it more what got you interested in designing or classroom design, I guess I can call it
Kelly Wilk-Downs
anything to do with home remodeling. And I love all of the shows, you know, just realizing that, you know, you're sometimes kids even notice that they're unhappy in their space, or it doesn't flow well. And knowing that you can kind of go in and rip and tear, and maybe slap on a coat of white paint or blue paint and totally changed the environment, or the physical structure by moving around furniture, just knowing the power of that as an OT, or even within my own home setting. And knowing how I do best, I don't like a lot of visual clutter, I like color. So I've been into that my mom was a really good designer, she just had an innate flair. And I kind of picked up on that. So I parlay that into the classroom setting, I guess, Jason, you know, for doing this for like 30 years, right away, I could walk into a classroom, and I could tell what wasn't working, you know, there's kids who were throwing things, there were scents in the room, there were colors that were just aversive to me and I don't know how kids can concentrate with things just being kind of spattered on the walls. So I would kind of go in and just look at that, you know, use my consultation and observation time to make suggestions. And I run home to my husband and say, you know, I think I can help this teacher, she's receptive. And we would work on design and layouts, you know, based on some some of it coming from the Teach I would pull from but it all has to be individualized based on the needs of the students. So I really want to make sure that I'm saying that, you know, every, every classroom is different. And a lot of times, there's a lot of different types of students in the classroom. So you have to take all of that into consideration.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And kind of going back to those early days, when you started looking at the design of classrooms. You know, were what was your experience with the teachers, you know, you I know from my experience as an OT, right? You can't just walk into a classroom and say, hey, you need to change this. So I want to ask you about those, those early experiences with teachers, how did you, you know, let them know, hey, maybe we can do something to to enhance this classroom?
Kelly Wilk-Downs
Yeah, so I guess, you know, my big takeaway from the Teach program is how it made me feel as a professional, things were organized, clean, mines structured, and I just felt at ease. I'm very on top of things that I do as a professional. And so I would kind of talk to the teachers about hey, you know, it doesn't have to be like this, you know, I see that Johnny over there is throwing things or Sally needs a sensory station and a lot of times new teachers would be in the thick of it, and they wouldn't even really understand and they'd be like, ah, Kelly come back, you know, they would be just, you know, dying for this information. And we change a few things around and I kind of smile and I'd say yeah, the power of it, you know, putting dividers and pulling this out, adding some soft music it Just making people happy. So it's the relationship. You know, it's the experience, it's being a seasoned clinician. I do talk to a lot of older OTs, and they say the same thing. They're like, great course, Kelly, great idea. I wish I could do it. So, I know, I know that there's a need. And I know that the younger ones really appreciate it. So I guess my wisdom and my years of doing this and loving design, and knowing the power of it, is beneficial to the teachers and the administrators.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, yeah. And I like to point out the quick when, oftentimes, I'm talking about working with teachers. And so what are a few, you know, quick wins that you have gotten through with teachers that kind of give them that trust in you that you can show them, you know, just in a few days that what you have to say is actually beneficial?
Kelly Wilk-Downs
Well, they'll notice, you know, behaviors, adult, go nurse them decreasing, I should say, they'll notice that the students can sit longer finish their work, you know, you give them the sensory input that they're craving, you calm the colors down, you take away the sense, there might be an aversive scent that's going on in the room, the plugins, for instance, and the students not even able to articulate that that's the real problem. But having the sensory integration background is also very beneficial. I pull that in as well. So I do a lot of checklists. And I'm also developing one that's going to coincide with a classroom design course, that we can share with both parents and teachers give them a checklist of things that they just to make them more aware so that they notice what's working and what's not working in the classroom. So I would say that the quick takeaways are, you know, behaviors, decreasing sensory aversions diminishing? And just the ability to follow through and complete work, work test.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, I think there are a lot of teachers out there that would love to see those three things happen.
Kelly Wilk-Downs
Definitely, definitely.
Jayson Davies
Alright, so we're gonna spend the rest of the podcast really talking about the classroom design and the development of a classroom design. And I want to kind of, I think, start large picture, and work our way down to narrow. And so starting with the large picture, let's talk about the design of a classroom, the layout of a classroom. Are there some things that OTs should know that they can relay on to their teachers?
Kelly Wilk-Downs
Absolutely, absolutely. So teach has a great pyramid. And in our course, we really included this because it really is all about the physical structure, it's the environment, and the layout. And teach uses a lot of work Carol's but that's not the only thing that they use. So it's very simple. It's the top to bottom and left to right, I will provide some of your listeners, some good slides so that they can see this, my husband and I kind of worked on us. They're very intricate, and they're they're easy to understand. So everything is left to right, your work is going to be on the left to the student, the students can have their own little separate white Carol, no visual clutter, white walls, or cream walls are blue in the classroom, soothing colors, and they'll do their work at their station. They're there, Carol, and then when they're finished, there's going to be a finished folder. And after the students usually finish with their work, they'll get some downtime if necessary. So it's very, very structured. And it makes sense, it makes sense to the professional going in to the teacher. And in fact, what you notice after a while is that that just hums, it just goes on autopilot. For a lot of the students, you see the kids, okay, here's my schedule, I know exactly what I'm supposed to do. The teacher or the teacher's assistant can check on the students, you know, look at their their work to see if it's completed and move on. It's just very, very good. It's just a checks and balances system.
Jayson Davies
Gotcha. And I know right now, with the age of Common Core, whether you're in a state that uses common core or not, you can't get away from the idea that right now there's an emphasis within education to have a lot of group activities. And I think that has led to a lot of classrooms. And this isn't really new but a lot of classrooms you see groups of students you see four desks that are all pointed toward each other. How is is that similar or is that very different from the Teach methodology of the classroom design?
Kelly Wilk-Downs
Well teach looks at it depends on the amount of support so this can be done you can put the kids in pods for sure. So what I'm talking about with the word Carol's will be students that are more distracted, they kind of need like the white walls, they need a quiet, they need to be able to focus. So after you've gotten them through the system, and they're a little more independent, they're on autopilot, you can definitely, and we want to be doing that you want to be grouping on with the kids. So, um, some of the slides that we've done, you know, they might need independent work for harder subjects like math, science, what have you. And then for your crafts or your writing, whatever you you can also look at other options. So when designing a classroom, you want to have both options for sure.
Jayson Davies
Great. And the other thing that I think about when especially if I think about younger grade classrooms, you know, we have circle time, we have carpet time. And I just want to ask you any kind of tips or any suggestions, maybe for an occupational therapy practitioner out there that, you know, has a kid is doing okay, when they're at their desk, but as soon as they get to circle time, maybe they're all over the place or whatnot.
Kelly Wilk-Downs
Yeah, that's that can be a tough one, because it could be sensory things or primitive reflexes that are still hanging around. Yeah, sure. You definitely can use like colored carpet squares for the younger students. You can use different kinds of seating for students, giving them a schedule that that carries with them that they can bring to different stations. Yeah, social stories to talk about how, you know what the expectations are? What's going on with it, the activity in the classroom, those kinds of things, I would pull in. Great. Yeah. And younger ones are harder, though.
Jayson Davies
Well, I mean, they, they like to get a lot of movement. And definitely,
Kelly Wilk-Downs
and you got to give it to them.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So you mentioned some checklists, and whatnot. And, you know, I'm here in California, the Teach model is definitely not a common phrase out here, among OTs, among teachers, among anyone. But if I go into a classroom, and I'm thinking we gotta do something about this classroom design, I guess, you know, when I'm working with the individual student, I do an evaluation. Do you do any evaluation of a classroom per se, before you want to make some adjustments? Or do you use the checklists? Or what does that look like?
Kelly Wilk-Downs
Yes, we have some checklists that I've developed that we kind of have the teacher and the parent do, and we're just extrapolating information, like, what what works in the home environment, what are they doing at home. So when you're at the Teach program, they hire consultants, and they have a system there, I think that when I was there, there were like, 100 families on it. And you can partake in the Teach consultants come into your house. And I've done that as well, you would label visually label, how to take a shower, you know, don't miss behind your years, we would laminate the shower routine, you could put the visuals on the kids drawers, color code, their, their clothes that they're supposed to wear for the day. So that was the great thing about the program. It was both in school, and they were doing the same thing in the home environment, everybody needed to be on board. And I think that's why it works so beautifully. I should say to that, in that area, dual PhD parents, they moved there for the services. But that wasn't always the case. And you know, it was just there was a drawn attraction for families to move there for the structure teaching for the students.
Jayson Davies
And then when you move beyond the Teach program, though, how did you I mean, we talked a little bit about getting the teacher on board, per se, yes. But did you do any sort of formal evaluation per se on this classroom before implementing some of these changes? Or was it just kind of little bit by little bit? You implemented small and increasingly larger changes?
Kelly Wilk-Downs
Thats absolutely right. So there's no formal assessment tool. It's called where at all but that's a good idea for classroom design. So I just pulled from my my past experience and my love of classroom design and what works and what doesn't work over the years. I do a lot of talking with other seasoned therapists as well. And little by little, I don't think you can go in and totally, you know, rip and tear a classroom. I don't think any teacher or students you know, are gonna appreciate that. If the painter spouse Yeah, if there are no funding to do it, you know, you certainly don't want the paint smell in the classroom, like those things need to be done over the summer. So I would just, I wouldn't, you know, I would bite off little chunks and present it to the teacher because that's all that could be reasonably done. Subtle changes over time. Absolutely. And that's what that's what worked the best with a teacher she didn't know You didn't want to rub the teacher the wrong way they're struggling, they're having a hard enough time, just little bits of information. That's all anyone can take in. It's a gradual thing or learning about all of this. So,
Jayson Davies
yeah, and kind of going off of that, you know, none of us are perfect. We make mistakes. Have you ever put something in place? And then you come back two weeks later, maybe two months later, and realize something's not working? You have that? Go ahead, share, yeah,
Kelly Wilk-Downs
yeah, absolutely. What you what you do is you kind of hyper focus on a student that's on the IEP that you're attending to, but you really need to use your observational skills and look at all students. And a teacher knows her students in the classroom, if she has 1012, whatever, in a special education setting, you really need to sit down with them and talk about okay, if we make these changes, how is it going to either impacted the other students in the classroom classroom, either in a positive or negative way. So knowing that we can make errors or mistakes, I tried to avoid it. And I really tried to think ahead and ask the teacher how it may impact the other students, those are questions that need to be asked ahead of time before you change things up, so to speak.
Jayson Davies
Yeah. Have you ever experienced where, you know, you saw Johnny over here, and you knew Johnny was going to benefit from one thing, but then maybe Sabrina on the other side of the classroom, may actually not benefit from the thing that Johnny needs? Is that ever happened to? Absolutely
yeah. And that's where you need to like partition and section off and have good schedules with the students, or maybe even have the class or the student that might find something a verse and exit the situation, or do her mainstream or go out for specials, you really have to plan out in advance. A good teacher, as we all know, is very organized, and our greater tea is the same way. And a seasoned person is you know, pulling from your experiences and asking a lot of questions and really thinking about how this is going to affect everyone. So.
Jayson Davies
one thing that you recently introduced me to was a cool tool that can help teachers and OTs occupational therapy practitioners to develop a plan for a classroom, a layup, or a classroom. And so would you mind sharing a little bit about that?
Kelly Wilk-Downs
Sure, yeah, this is something that I found it's Kaplan is what it's called capital co company of, say, early education company. And they do sell a lot of their own equipment. But it's the closest thing that I found to architectural software that I could use as an OT, although it's early education, they have infant and toddler rooms, you might use that for like a church environment to up until preschool levels. But it gives you a good idea of different layouts. And you can definitely experiment with that. And then what I was doing to, to be honest, was I was using graph paper and sketching out and just, you know, taking a lot of pictures, going to the internet and doing layouts, and then showing this to the teacher. Of course, they have to buy into it, sometimes it goes above that as well. And you know, just that the physical structure and layout and colors and getting into the psychology and all of that. So usually people are very interested, the teacher seemed to be very receptive to all of this.
Jayson Davies
That's what I was gonna ask you is, how can an OT even kind of if an OT goes and plays with this, because they know that the classroom that they go into every Monday has 12 kids? So they go in and say, All right, and you 12 desks, whatever, you know, do you have any recommendations for maybe how they might present a layout to a teacher?
Kelly Wilk-Downs
Yeah, yeah. So you definitely can use this software. And I should say, I've done quite a bit of research, and there's nothing really on the market that I can see. So here you OTs that are married architects, this is something that we could definitely would be beneficial to us. Developing a software for middle school and high school students is how to layout a classroom, that would be beneficial would be great. So you know, you could definitely dive into this. There's a few other options. If you Google it. There are some basics out there. It's very, you know, plants. It's not really user friendly. So the Cappelen software is a little bit more user friendly. But I shouldn't say that, you know, it's tied to their products, but it's kind of fun, though. It gives you a good place to start.
Jayson Davies
Do you ever sit down with a teacher and kind of play around with this together or do you typically do it On your own, and then bring it to the teacher. for a little bit.
Kelly Wilk-Downs
Yeah, a little bit of both. I think it really depends, you know, if the house or if the teacher struggling, you know, and I do share the teaching methodology and show the courses to see if there's an interest. But of course, you know, that needs to be supported by administration as well. And there's a lot I can do without even going there with them, you know, just changing up the design and pulling things off the wall and taking the plugins out the very basics, you can do a lot with just the basics. Cool. Yeah.
Jayson Davies
All right. Now, you mentioned the workstations a little bit earlier. And I want to dive deeper into that, because I know there's multiple components of the workstations, you have the different tasks, though, you set that up, you have visual supports, you've got potentially social stories and strips or whatnot. So let's just start with the visual supports that you might use at an individual workstation. What are some different types of visual supports?
Kelly Wilk-Downs
Okay, awesome. Yeah. So I learned this as well, that, you know, it needs to be also is graded as to how you would present information, it depends if a student's reading, not reading, what have you. So that the first thing that you would want to do using the Teach methodology for students that are very disorganized, you know, a lot of times it's preschool that you want to teach, and that there's a given take. It's the first and then strips, and we used a lot of pictures of real objects, it's the most concrete. So first, you have to do your math puzzle. And then after that, you get to play on the computer. So it's very, very basic, first shooting you this, then you get something that you desire. Does that make sense? Yeah, pretty basic. I think everybody knows this stuff, though. And then you could move on to pictures. So a little little more abstract would be a picture. So for me, you know, I might have like, first we're gonna do therapy putty, then we're gonna do our scissors. And we're going to work on the lacing sequence. And those can be real pictures. And I would use maybe a top to bottom format, in that regard, and setting it up that way for the students because they're non readers, and they're just able to follow pictures. And then moving on, a little bit more advanced for students that are beginning to read that could track left or right, I would set up the work strips in in that realm. And then, yeah, yeah. And then for the higher functioning kids, you know, just a schedule, just, you know, written words, you know, this is what I'm going to do. And then you would have the kids you know, checkoff done completed. Voila, those are your readers. So.
Jayson Davies
Awesome. Okay. And then, yeah, how I know within the Teach model. So this is not obviously like most of the OT practitioners that listen to this podcast, they have never heard of the Teach model, or maybe they've heard of it. But they're definitely not working in schools, where everyone knows about it. And so coming from that idea where the teachers don't understand visual schedules, necessarily, or at least all the different types, what recommendation would you have for an occupational therapy practitioner that wants to help their teacher to better understand the visual schedules and implementing them? Should they recommend a training? Or should they do their own training? Or how might they start to support teachers with visual schedules?
Kelly Wilk-Downs
Well, you know, that's awesome. I get your OTs taking courses on this and then bringing the information back teachers, a lot of great courses, there's a lot of good courses that we can buy special educators. This is not only a teach thing, the schedules, there's a lot of people putting on courses. So surely, you know, the internet has great information. And you can google and research schedules, you're gonna get a lot of wonderful pictures picture's worth 1000 words. Just bring it in very simple, you know, just like one on one piece of paper, or do your create your own work folder, laminate it and then share the t shirt. Hey, what do you think about this? And then try it out with a students with a T shirt around and make sure that it's beneficial that the student likes it, and then it makes sense for everyone involved. Yeah, and I like to personally, I like to address this in multiple ways, whether it's visual schedules or something completely, completely different. It could be fine motor, something it could be sensory processing, something doesn't matter. I like to address it from multiple different angles because people a they need to hear it multiple times and be they all learned it. friendly. So, personally, I might try and set up a training a, you know, for all the kindergarten teachers. And then I might also try and go into the classroom a little bit. Sorry if there's some noise in the background, I've got a dog and a crying baby over here but don't can't hear.
Jayson Davies
All right.
Kelly Wilk-Downs
Sounds like a sleeping baby to me.
Jayson Davies
But, yeah, so that's one way that I like to do that is to come about it from multiple angles. And does that. Does that ring a bell with you at all? Or?
Kelly Wilk-Downs
I have absolutely done that. Yes, I just I really do like giving the courses and having like the q&a, I do a lot of examples. I just I don't know. It's just my style. I like show and tell on the show and tell girl I love show and tell when I was a kid, you know, coming to the presentation and giving them ideas and showing them different ways to set things out and leaving samples for the teachers. I think that works best. Yeah.
Jayson Davies
Agreed. Agreed. I think we need to instead of, instead of giving teachers more work, we need to model for them and show them how to use it. To make it easier. The last thing we need to do is to give them something else to figure out.
True, true. Yeah, I come prepared. And I just, it's what I did with my products that I dial up and everything's all done. You know, and people appreciate that, you know, it teachers have enough to deal with, they want to see the finished product, and they want to see you using it and how successful you are. And then they're on board, they're gonna buy into it a lot easier.
Jayson Davies
Yep. All right. Another part of that workstation process I know are the shoe box tasks. And so I want to ask you about those. And, you know, it's obviously not just about shoe tying, maybe there might be one for shoe tying but tell us about the shoe box tasks.
Kelly Wilk-Downs
Yeah, you definitely can do shoe tying and a shoe box task. So that was one of the things boy, I just was so mesmerized, when I was there with my time at the Teach program. And I actually met the couple, Ryan Larson is the gentleman who came up with a shoebox task. And it's like a self containment system. It's, they actually use shoe boxes, and then they took off with your business, they have a real factory now and they sell them their hard plastic now, and they have activities for the students. And they even go into like the vocational realm. And to me that like this was the fun part. I was like the Martha Stewart OT you know, I just loved it. Timothy said love the crafts. I love designing of color. That's why I chose OT instead of PT as well. And I liked the compartmentalization. I think that's why I developed my shoe time program to I saw that how that worked. So you know, everything that's presented in a, like a clear defined package, that that is what the shoe box tasks are all about. And they can be pretty simple collating, separating, counting, color differentiation, or they, you know, they can go to a higher level of skill, job preparedness, vocational tasks. So there's different things that that company can do with their product.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, yeah, I've become familiar with those, I didn't know that this is where they came from. But I have been in a few different classrooms where they've had those hard plastic bins, and there is a specific square cut out where everything will fit into. And there's a cup on the other side with the blocks. And it's a simple, you know, simple is relative, but it's a task where the student takes the block out of the cup and puts it into the block, but then you get a hole or into the square, whatever cut out, but then you get to the next shoe box. And it's completely different. It's the same concept and a sense of it's still the hard plastic, but it's a completely different activity. Now, my one gripe with this, at least in the program that I was at is that all the pieces went missing, there was never, like there was I mean, not all the pieces I should say, but it's like having a toddler around the house. Right? You can never find all the pieces to a toy. But yeah, you know, it's a great concept in the sense that the student, it gives them one thing, and they know what that expectation is so,
Kelly Wilk-Downs
Right. Yeah, I think the company does sell extra piece in parts, though. And when I started going to like the New York City Toy Fair, I was always talking about that. I would ask them Hey, do you still extra dice? Do you still have extra game pieces? Yeah, that's a real problem with kids and students, especially students that are you know, disorganized, or on the spectrum or? Yeah, it's it's more challenging. You got to keep up with the pieces and parts because that doesn't make sense to the kids. You know, you might get an autistic student that might separate Hey, you know, there's a there's a piece of this thing, and then you're at a loss. So yeah, you don't Want to give the students some you want to make sure that it's all together and all that all those supplies are there for the students?
Jayson Davies
Yeah, I can imagine some of my students in the past that if there were three blocks yesterday, and there's only two today, you would never hear the end of it.
Kelly Wilk-Downs
No, they're going to notice they will tell you.
Jayson Davies
All right, another another. I mean, we got a few more things before we wrap up. But you mentioned social stories and thrips types of, you've already talked a little bit about strips and the relationship to visual strips or visual schedules. But what about social strips?
Kelly Wilk-Downs
Yeah, social stories was developed by Carol Gray. I mean, you can just see that the enrichment that I had, when I was there, I was introduced to social stories, and I saw how well that worked. Writing a story about like, for instance, going to get your hair cut, the students could really relate to that we would talk to them and read the story. I would do a lot of groups with kids, and we'd have them around that kidney bean shaped table. I really worked aggressively with a speech language pathologist Gretchen Stitz. Enrolling, we'll never forget her because every week, you know, we came up with a great group. And she really made me a better professional, she really did. And she eased off of me then and said, Okay, are you ready to do this on your own? And I just I took off when I was there. But yeah, it's the structure. It's the planning. And we used comic strip. comic strips, basically, you know, and there's even software that you can use to design that if you look on the internet, there's a lot of people that are in the comic book industry. And a lot of kids are attracted to that. And you can design strips, conversations for the students. I guess it all depends on the individual students and what they're interested in. When I was there, it might have been Thomas, the Tank Engine, what have you. And we would pull from those types of books and set up the activity was cutting out things from children's books, in order for them to relate, you know, we were trying to appeal more towards their, their interests, you always have to figure out what they're interested in, instead of your activities that are appealing to them. So,
Jayson Davies
Yeah, I know, I actually had a thesis group, and I think I've talked about on the podcast before, but I had a thesis group at Stanford University down here in Southern California, and their project, they went above and beyond with it, they actually created a choose your own adventure, social story. For Kids. At that early elementary stage, when they start to take test, they found research about the anxiety that students have when they're about to take a test. And so they created about a 20 page social story book for kids who are taking a test and you know, it's like you wake up in the morning, do you have a nice good breakfast before it test? Or do you eat a sugary bar? And you know, the kid makes that choice? Do they? Which one do they choose? Right? So yeah, I think visual supports and visual stories, social stories have come a long way. And even Canva can make it very simple for someone just to go on and make a very simple social story really quickly.
Kelly Wilk-Downs
Yeah. And hey, that brings up something Canva also has some software to design a classroom, it's pretty basic, but they do have something so for your listeners that they want to go in that realm. And if they know how to use Canva, they have classroom design software in there.
Jayson Davies
Wow, I did not know that. And quickly, quick. I don't know. But Canva is free for educators. If you use a education at a school district email, you can get the Canva education, platinum, whatever they call it for free. So check out Canva Yeah,
Kelly Wilk-Downs
that's a good tip. Awesome. I love it.
Jayson Davies
All right. So we've talked about visual support. We've talked about shoe box tasks. We have talked about some social strips and what not. What are just a few other things that may be in a classroom we should be looking for that might impact function, behavior, and all the good all that good stuff in the classroom.
Kelly Wilk-Downs
Sure, yeah, absolutely. So those things I would definitely suggest would be like the lighting that is very impactful to the students. Fluorescent lighting is just never a good thing. In my experience, natural light is always the best. So in our course that we were working on, we talk a lot about lighting, adjustable lighting, the state of the art lighting that they're using now, it's a little bit more expensive, and most older schools and classrooms are just set up with the stock, fluorescent lighting, but of course you can put covers on that you can play with the window, you know, move students around the window to get them closer to the natural light and all of that good, you know, all the OT things that we might use Like the sunglasses, you could use different overlays to tone things down. And of course, you know, looking at the classroom, the color, and how color bounces off the walls, how late effects that you're doing research on, all of that is beneficial. Some of that information we've included in our course. Other things, another big area would be the acoustics. You know, some classrooms are really loud. What can you do to buffer the loudness in the classroom? Well, there's things that you can put in the ceiling, you can have wall to wall carpets, there's different types of carpets that you can use on the floor. And yeah, there's different installments that you can use are separators that have like padding, acoustical padding and and that that can be beneficial as well. I haven't honestly played around with that a lot. I usually because of the expense. Yeah. And I've never wanted the administrators getting mad at me. Sometimes it's hard to justify when you can put noise cancelling headphones on a student. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I have had a few teachers that have bought some of those noise, cancelling panels and put those up. Yeah, I can only imagine going to an administrator, my wife is an assistant principal, I can only imagine going to her and recommending let's put in nice, thick carpet and every classroom like that is not going to fly. The custodians would also not be happy.
Kelly Wilk-Downs
A government a candy nightmare, exactly. Stuck in the carpet. Yeah. But
Jayson Davies
there are some simple things that we can do. You know, like acoustic panels, one of my biggest gripes was always, especially nowadays, with all the things going on in the world, is that we're seeing a decrease in Windows in classrooms. Some of my schools, even when they were built in the 80s, they're the window is just like a 10 inch wide strip, from the top of the ceiling down to the bottom of the floor. That is the one window in the entire classroom.
Kelly Wilk-Downs
Yeah, and if they can do anything, and that's what I recommend is getting more natural light, it's just getting closer to nature and having an open window situation. If a school if that is the one thing that you can work into your budget, I would say get a bigger window. Absolutely. Because the kids need that natural light they just do. It just affects the marriage is just a wise thing to do. And that's really where I would start. And from a construction standpoint, in talking to contractors, that's one of the easier things to do, actually. Yeah. And cheaper. Yeah, is get in a bigger window, if at all possible.
Jayson Davies
Good to know. And you know, there's a lot of things that school districts can do to remain safety conscious while putting in a larger window. I mean, you can make sure that the windows are reflective, you can make sure that they're high quality windows, maybe even bulletproof windows, I don't know, I'm sure that increase the costs, but it's definitely something that can be done. So yeah,
Kelly Wilk-Downs
yeah, and just, you know, doing your research, talking to the superintendent talking to the construction crew, prior to doing any remodeling, you know, if an OT can be involved in that and offer some really beneficial input, I mean, you know, it's very warranted, and that's a great thing to do is to share background and experience, just hard to tie in sometimes. And it's, um, you know, our bosses are our department, you know, he's always worried about how we spend our billable time. But if you're doing it under our consultation model, or the school is requesting it, you know, maybe they can make time for us to offer this information, where we can do a little more research and help out.
Jayson Davies
And that is where I'm going to plug that. That is part of the reason that occupational therapy practitioners need to be able to move into administration at school districts, whether you need a credential, or you don't need a credential, I know, I have been pretty vocal about my desire for California Occupational Therapy practitioners to get a teaching credential, mostly so that we can move into administration through an administrative credential so that we can have more impact in this way. I know that is very different state to state. In some states, OTs can already be administrators if they go through the work, but yeah, sorry, little shameless plug there about something that I'm very passionate about.
Kelly Wilk-Downs
No, that's a fabulous idea. And I think I think like more seasoned therapists would hang with it a little bit longer. If they could use their wisdom and their years of experience to work with administration, I think that they would feel more beneficial. A lot of times, you know, you just kind of want to get out of the system because the system is broken and the way that it's set up is just not doesn't work for everyone and you know, I talk to a lot of seasoned therapist and they just want out, but yet they still have so much wisdom and they want to share their knowledge and how do you tie into the At so it's beneficial for everyone. That's a good idea, Jayson really good. I mean, it's, it's a little bit of a shame that none of us can work for an occupational therapist or an occupational therapy assistant, even, like I will never have as a school based OT I will never have an administrator above me, unless you work in LAUSD or a few other districts where they figured it out. But I will never have an administrator above me that understands fully occupational therapy, because they are an occupational therapy practitioner. And even in that sense, like we need, even if I didn't want to get into administration, which at this point, I don't, it would be nice to have OTs at that level, to support us from the top. And also to be able to be in the room when decisions about new schools being built are present. And you know, when a school is being renovated, even if they aren't the person to share with the superintendent. Something about carpet and acoustics. They can say, hey, OTs know this, let's bring in one of our OTs to talk about this more. So Yeah. And it's always like, we feel that if you're not useful in the system, you exit the system and you do your own thing. Well, you might not always be successful. You know, there's something to be said about the structure of a school district or even a charter school got they're very receptive. That's why I like it either way. Yeah, I found that to be true. They're willing to try innovative ideas and concepts, they'll listen a little bit more. The administrators in the public schools are always looking at the bottom line and productivity. And we always go back to that, and it's a season person wants to get away from that, you know, that's not what they want to do. So yeah, there's definitely room for someone needs to be speaking up about this. I think Miss Jamie is talking a lot about that, too.
Jayson Davies
Yes, yeah, she's Miss Jamie's doing a lot in New York. And I'm out here doing some of it in California, along with our Occupational Therapy Association in California. And there are some states where you can already become an administrator. But yeah,
Kelly Wilk-Downs
What states do you know where you can do?
Jayson Davies
here off the top of my head, I want to say potentially Washington state, but that's because the practitioners there have to get a certain extra little bit of credential to work in the public schools. Yes, I'm blanking on some of the other states, some of the states don't necessarily require an administrative credential for administrators. And so in that case, they might be able to get there, but it's there a are very few states that it can happen. And there's even fewer OT practitioners that have made it to administration. I know some OT practitioners that have gone back and got a teaching credential simply so that they could work their way up into administration, or a school psychologist credential for the same reason. And I did the math, it would have taken me eight years to become an administrator. So yeah, but anyways, yeah, again, OTs administration, we need to make it happen. But back on to course a little bit. Okay, it's time to wrap up. But I want to do one last opportunity to kind of just share a little bit about you and your course where people can learn more. You mentioned a lot about Of course, I'd love to hear more.
Kelly Wilk-Downs
Yeah, so I am if if people haven't heard of me, I'm the shoe Titan means simply there is no me as Kelly shoe tie. It's funny. I developed the product. Initially, when I was working at the Teach program, I had dual PhD parents, I had a particular family that we were sitting down at the table, and it was very formal there as well. Parents were really giving a lot of input on the goals. A parent came and she dutifully had her list. And she said, I would like for you to to work on shoe tying. I'm just very frustrated that with this. I thought about it. And I thought, Oh, this is a good challenge. I've got my digital camera. I know the Teach methodology. I've got a system, I can do this. So I really did. I took off. I even worked with a head of Chicago, I found a manufacturer that stitched together the laces forming. And they were spectacular, actually. And they had a flip bound book. And it worked so well that everyone you know that in an administration said you need to write out a book or develop a product. So over the years I did it evolved, we had different colors. We were in the toy market I exhibit at the New York City Toy Fair kind of pulled back on that I used COVID to write my course I just thought you know, I really need to give it out to my people, the therapists and so I did do that. And it's available. It's through Thinkific and it's a great product, it works well. I've gotten into Nordstroms and we're also writing a course an offshoot to how to conduct your own classes and a camp and we're looking at Pair up with a major children's shoe manufacturer and a partner to see if we can get something going in that regard as well Jayson.
Jayson Davies
Very cool. Well, awesome. Thank you so much for joining us, Kelly. And I'm looking forward to, to seeing more courses come from, from you. And everyone, it sounds like you're working with a few people, which is even better collaboration are always. So thank you so much for coming on sharing a little bit with us about classroom design, and I look forward to keeping in touch.
Kelly Wilk-Downs
thankful and I'm grateful for the opportunity, and I'm hoping that it's educational and beneficial to your listeners.
Jayson Davies
Absolutely. Okay. All right, well, that is going to wrap up episode number 128 of the OT schoolhouse podcast. Thank you so much to Kelly for coming on the show, and sharing just a lot about how we can purposefully help teachers design their classroom to enhance that student success. Be sure to check the show notes for this episode over at OTSchoolHouse.com slash episode 128. And if you're really diggin the podcast, be sure to check out our community, the OT schoolhouse collaborative where you can actually earn professional development for listening to this podcast. We also have a lot of other professional development experiences over there. And we even have other community experiences where you can ask me questions directly and get support from myself and other members in the community. So check that out at OTSchoolHouse.com slash collab. All right, I will see you next time on the OT schoolhouse podcast. Until then take care and have a safe week. Bye bye.
Amazing Narrator
Thank you for listening to the OT schoolhouse podcast. For more ways to help you and your students succeed right now. Head on over to OT school house.com Until next time, class is dismissed.
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