OTS 49: Homeschooling - Coaching Families for Success Feat. Sarah Collins, OTR/L
- Jayson Davies
- May 17, 2020
- 41 min read
Updated: Jun 3
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Welcome to the show notes for Episode 49 of the OT Schoolhouse Podcast.
In this episode, Jayson interviews Sarah Collins, OTR/L. Sarah is an occupational therapist that specializes in supporting students who are homeschooled and the families that support them. Homeschooling her own kids has helped her to understand where the true needs are for this community and the research she has found supports the occupational coaching model that she uses with her clients. Listen in and earn 1 hour of professional development for doing so!
Here are the objectives for this Professional Development Podcast. Listeners will:
Demonstrate an understanding of common reasons why families may choose to homeschool their students and the stigmas that may prevent them from doing so.
Be introduced to some of the literature around homeschooling and special education related to homeschooling, as well as the need for educational occupational therapy support services
Gain knowledge in how an evidence-based coaching model can work to support homeschooling families.
You can learn more about how to earn professional development credits through the OTSH Podcast for your OT/COTA renewal certification here!
Links to Show References:
Get the facts related to homeschooling from the National Home Education Research Institute
Perspectives of Homeschool Educators on Occupational Therapy: A Pilot Study (AOTA)
Check out Sarah's business website
Be sure to subscribe to the OT School House email list & get access to our free downloads of Gray-Space paper and the Occupational Profile for school-based OTs.
Have any questions or comments about the podcast? Email Jayson at Jayson@otschoolhouse.com
Well,
Thanks for visiting the podcast show notes! If you enjoyed this episode be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts
Episode Transcript
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Amazing Narrator
Hello and welcome to the OT school house podcast, your source for school based occupational therapy tips, interviews and professional development. Now to get the conversation started, here is your host. Jayson Davies class is officially in session.
Jayson Davies
Hey, everyone. And welcome back to the OT school house podcast for episode 49 so excited for you all to be here with me today. We are actually getting back to having a professional development opportunity. So that's really cool. We are going to have a therapist who actually specializes in homeschooling. So I know right now we're all working from home, but it's not exactly the same as homeschooling. However, with that said, I think it might actually help some of us who are doing who are just struggling a little bit and trying to figure out how to communicate and how to work with the parents in a way that best supports our students. Okay, so let me go over the details real quick of how the professional development opportunity works. And then I will introduce our guest, Sarah Collins, so you can, if you'd like, listen to this podcast for completely free. And then if you would like, you can pay to have the opportunity to earn a certificate of completion for one hour toward your recertification as an occupational therapy provider. Right? So the way that you go ahead and do that is by listening to this episode all the way through, and then you head on over to OT schoolhouse.com, forward slash episode 49 and there, there will be an option to earn a professional development opportunity or a professional development development certificate. The way that that works is, once you do go ahead and purchase that. There is a short quiz, 10 questions that you go ahead and take, and that just shows that you listen to this episode and you demonstrate that you have learned the knowledge expressed in this episode. After you do that, I will go ahead and send you your certificate of completion, good for your recertification as an occupational therapist for NBC, ot per se. Okay, so it's pretty simple. That's all you have to do. And along with the opportunity to earn that certificate, you're also going to get a transcript of this podcast, or at least the meat of the podcast, the interview portion of the podcast. Okay, so that's kind of how that works, pretty simple. And because it's been a little while since we've done a podcast professional development, I'm actually going to have this podcast be 40% off between now and June 1. So for two weeks after this podcast released, it's going to be 40% off, and then after that, it will go back to its full price, which still isn't too expensive, right around $20 Okay, so, yeah, that's all I have to say about the professional development side of this. Now let me go ahead and introduce Sarah Collins. She is an occupational therapist that specializes in helping families that homeschool. She has a website called Collins therapy academy.com and she'll talk more about that in a bit. But the title of this episode is really meaningful, because it's homeschooling, coaching families for success, and it's that because Sarah doesn't necessarily provide direct therapy. And we'll go into the ins and out of the ins and OTs of that in the meat of the podcast, but it's really interesting, because we're going to go through and start broad and get specific. We're going to first start off and talk about what homeschooling is, what are some of the stigmas behind homeschooling? And then we're going to kind of jump into special education and homeschooling. Does special education even exist in homeschooling? Do kids that are homeschooled have the option to have IEPs? Can they get tested? So we'll talk a little bit about that, and then we'll dive into some of the research specifically behind occupational therapy and homeschooling. All right, there's not a lot, but there is some, and Sarah is going to share that with us, so hang tight, and yeah, it's gonna be a good one. So let me go ahead and bring on. Sarah Collins, I hope you enjoy the show. Hey Sarah, and welcome to the OT school health podcast. How are you doing today?
Sarah Collins
We're doing great. You know, in the middle of a pandemic, as great as you can do.
Jayson Davies
Absolutely, wow. I can't even talk today. Just stuck in the house. Man, everything's just gone. So actually, I just want to bring this up. You were just showing me your notes for today. You want to go ahead and describe your notes, what they look like right now.
Oh, well, there. So I a very nice little outline, just to make sure that I had some major takeaways and stuff. And my four year old was in here earlier. I have a nice light saber up in the corner. I think he was working on, I don't even know. I think there's an eyeball here somewhere in the middle. Looks like some cross, I don't know, but I'm going to be really lucky if we make it through with all of the major takeaways.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, and so I mean that just kind of. Show with everything going on right now with the pandemic, everyone is in the house all day long. Kids are anxious. Adults, we're all anxious. How are you and your family holding up?
Sarah Collins
You know, we are actually doing very well. I was just talking my we brought up my husband's grandparents last week or two weeks ago now, their COVID was in their assisted living, so we went ahead and brought them up here to make sure that they stayed safe. So now we have myself, my husband, my three kids and 290 year old grandparents. So the good thing is, is, you know, I also have a background in home health care, and good old nanny is, she's getting around the clock occupational therapy. She doesn't even know it okay, it's been an hour. Time to get up. Let's get walking.
Jayson Davies
I got that covered, right? The benefits of living with an OT, right? All right. So we are here to talk a little bit about homeschooling and how you provide homeschooling, occupational therapy type of services. We'll get into more of that in a second, but first, tell us a little bit about your background as an occupational therapist, right?
Sarah Collins
So I graduated, I don't even know a long time ago. I started out in pediatrics, working at Kennedy Krieger in Baltimore, and then once I had my children, my daughter's 11, so guess it was rough that time. But once I had my children, I kind of thought working with pediatrics, I was really giving my all the other people's kids, and I would get home at the end of the day and really just be zoned out. And so at that point, I started working home health care, and I did that. I was working full time up until my kids were my oldest was in third grade. My husband was working full time and had an hour and a half commute, and, you know, my so she was in, I had two in public school, and then my youngest was one in full time daycare, and so we were just, you know, doing that kind of corporate grind kind of deal. Then at that point, I actually was in a client's home, and her daughter was homeschooling their children. And it was, to me, just mind boggling the stuff that I would hear them talking about, and the discussions that they were having, and even even the geography that they knew that I was like, I don't know what, so that kind of just spurred my thoughts, um, at that point, and so, you know, but there was no chance for me to do it again. I was working full time. So then, actually, only about three or four weeks later, my husband was approached for a job up here in in Philadelphia, and we ended up moving within a matter of two months, I think we moved. He found out in January, we moved in March, we got up here. My kids were I moved them into public school up here, and then at that point, we were moving again in May to start into our like permanent home from a rental home. And I said, we're not switching schools again. This is silly. And so we started homeschooling at that point, and kind of have never really looked back. We came on a fantastic community of home families and just we've loved it. So that's where we are.
Jayson Davies
Okay, so what was your job transitioning when you moved Were you already not working at that point? Or did you find a new job when you moved up there or?
Sarah Collins
No, once I left Maryland and I came up here. Then now, I focused primarily on homeschooling the kids. And from that was 2016 that we got up here, so I did not start working again until starting Collins Academy therapy services. So I kept up, you know, kept up my license and kept up with research. But that was, that? Was it?
Jayson Davies
Gotcha okay. And so that's kind of obviously how you got into the homes homeschooling niche, obviously. So tell us a little bit about your current ot practice. What does that look like right now?
Sarah Collins
Right. So back in April of this year, you know, like I said, I was focusing primarily on my own children, so I but still trying to keep up my license. So I actually went to a Handwriting Without Tears workshop. You know, that obviously would make a difference in my own kids, since I'm working on that with them, and for me, for CEUs. But while I was there, the instructor who I wish I could remember her name, but I could not, because you've made a huge impact on my life. If I remember your name, I'm going to tell you, but she just kind of on a side track. Mentioned to me, you know, Sarah, there are so many families that are coming to these types of seminars that are working with their kids at home and whether they have special needs or whether they're just homeschoolers that are using this program that ask a lot of questions, and could really benefit from having an occupational therapist that is familiar with the homeschool world to bounce ideas off of and to talk with. And it kind of spurred my thinking a little bit. And then I had another family, you know, who was homeschooling their child who has cerebral palsy, and we talked through their day, a whole day. At one time, and just like you should really start a business. And so that was just April of last year or so, almost exactly a year ago. And took me quite a bit of time to get through, you know how to make this work and within licensure, and talk to a OTA, and to get through all the business part of it, and then in October, started Collins Academy therapy services. So basically, we'll talk a little bit more about, you know, later.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, just in a nutshell that you are basically helping parents who homeschool their children with ot like services in a way I'm using.
Sarah Collins
I'm acting, yeah, I'm more like an educational consultant with an OT background.
Jayson Davies
Is, yeah, basically what I'm doing, yeah. So obviously, right now, there are many kids that are quote, unquote homeschooling right now, not officially homeschool, but they're obviously at home and somehow getting school. Would you mind starting off with the what a more traditional homeschooling looks like. And obviously you learned firsthand this a few years ago. How was that and what? What have you come to know homeschooling as.
Sarah Collins
Right? So it's really interesting. You know, there's no two home schools that that look alike, and really it's the epitome of an Individualized Educational Plan. You know, even IEP really, because each family is choosing curriculums. And there's a bazillion, million of them, you know, that's that's a real number, by the way, a lot of of curriculums out. There a lot of different ways to do it, and even philosophies of education that are there. We in our home, we model called the classical model, which basically is going through three phases of learning. Starting. My primary example is really the alphabet. You know, you're starting to learn the alphabet and to recite it before you even know what those letters mean, you know. So my youngest is even reciting things like geography, places and history, sentences and stuff before he really comprehends what that means. Then later on in his life, and my older kid, OTs, obviously, you're able to ask more questions about that, and then later on, even further, then you're able to compare and contrast, and you're able to look at how that, how that fact, or whatever, can impact your world. So that's our main focus. There's tons of others. You know, we also do. There's something called Charlotte Mason philosophy, and that spends a lot of time outside and doing nature studies and child led learning. And so we do a lot of that as well. But again, there are no two families that do the same thing.
Jayson Davies
Yeah. And it's interesting that you bring up curriculum, because that's such a big word, obviously, for education, you can't really talk about education without curriculum. And that's one of the areas that I often find that occupational therapists don't know very much about, and I almost feel like that might impact the way that you do or do not provide services, especially if you're a school based occupational therapist. And so I guess my question then is, how has learning about curriculum impacted kind of what you do as a therapist?
Sarah Collins
You know, a lot actually, and because I got to go through this from both perspectives and both as a therapist and as a parent, my son has convergence disorder and visual scanning insufficiency, and so he has had a very difficult time with reading. And look, you know, so having to choose reading curriculums, you know, I was looking at working with my daughter who had no issues whatsoever, and really just took off reading, and then having to go through and sort through all of this information with my son, and coming up with different, again, educational theories and reading through, we ended up with something called the it's all about reading and all about spelling, which follows a Orton Gillingham approach. But it just opened my eyes that there are many different ways that children learn, which we know as OTs, you know, we look at kinesthetic learning versus visual learning versus auditory, you know, learning. And so for me, it has made a difference to know those options are out there. But then to put the onus kind of back on the parents in this area, I can do that. I can put the onus on the parents and say, hey, it seems like your child is a kinesthetic learner. Where can you go to find those resources? So I have been able to look at the way that a child learns and have that influence what they're doing within their home school.
Jayson Davies
Gotcha. And I just want to ask this up front is, are you providing at all ot services for your students? I mean, naturally, you are an OT as a parent, so you're going to use concepts, but you don't actually provide services to your students, right? You're just their teacher.
Sarah Collins
To my own children, or?
Jayson Davies
To your own children.
Sarah Collins
To my own Well, no. I mean. So that's really hard because, you know, occupational therapy, we're looking at, yes, throughout the day, so my mind is always working as an occupation.
Jayson Davies
And that's what I mean, yeah. So you're always an OT, but at the same time you're not trying specifically. And again, you are, in a way, because you're an occupational therapist, but you're just their teacher at this point.
Sarah Collins
Yes, I go, yes, there are things like I can say, because my son had convergence disorder and visual scan, like we play the game sequence, because I know that that makes a difference for him and helps him to practice. So I mean, I guess as an OT, if that matters.
Jayson Davies
All right. And of course, I really want to dive in. As we go further, we're going to dive more into this special education side of it. But first I have a question, and this is one that is a little weird, but I want to ask you, because I remember growing up when I when I heard that someone's being homeschooled, there's a little bit of a stigma around it. At least there was. I don't know if there is anymore, but I want to give you a moment to maybe address some of the misconceptions about homeschooling,
Sarah Collins
right? So, believe it or not, I actually wrote a paper in college. It was a persuasive essay on why not to homeschool your children? I came, right? I came from a public school background. That's what I knew. That's what you know, that was my biased opinion. And again, I had no intention of ever doing this was not in my plans, until I saw the beauty of it in somebody else's home. So I would say, yes, there is still somewhat of a stigma, you know, I get occasionally the well, how do you socialize your children? Question, but at the same time, it's growing by I think the numbers are two, two to 8% every single year, and so and and with kids with special needs, it's growing even faster. So I don't, you know, I don't really, I have not encountered any sort of stigma. What I would say, as far as therapists working with families who have special needs, or families with that are homeschooling, is a that socialization question. Don't ask it. It's you know, you can say things like, What extracurricular activities are your, you know, your kids involved in, or where are they, you know, with their peers, or how often are they with their peers, or something like that. But really, if you look at what, what is socialization, you know, families are going to be like, Oh, geez, not again, you know. And they're going to kind of shut down right away, so because they have at some point encountered that, that stigma. But let me tell you, My children are, you know, Mondays, we're with a group of kids all day long. Tuesdays and Thursdays, they go to a homeschool karate class, so they're with kids for two hours at that point in time. Wednesdays, we hike every afternoon with you. Well, not right now, obviously, but typically there's 40 kids that are hiking with us on Wednesdays and then Fridays, we are all over the place, so, and that is the typical experience of the homeschool families that I've come in contact with. So it is different, yes, but I think it's something like 2.5 million kids, yeah, 2.5 million kids right now that are homeschooled. So.
Jayson Davies
All right, and it's funny that you kind of brought up how it's growing two to 8% and I actually just got done recording the podcast that's going to come out just before yours, and just talking about this whole COVID 19 experiences. I mean, how is that going to change things? I wouldn't be surprised if there's an even larger jump to home over the 12 to 24 months.
Sarah Collins
Right there very well might be, I think, right now it's so hard, because the advantages of homeschooling, you know, are when you can pick your own the curriculum that does work for your own child, and you can be out and experience the world and go to all these museums and things like that on regular, and that can't happen right now. And the advantages of public schooling, you know, where your kids are in a group all day, and they're, you know, learning from their peers, and they're learning from people who are fully, you know, certified specifically in their subject, right? That type of thing. That advantage isn't happening right now. So really, we're getting, like, the worst of both sides right now. So I don't know. I think it could go either way. I think there are some people, and I have actually had several people that are like, Oh, well, I think I might stick with this. Or, you know, there's some people that are like, this is horrible, yeah, so I don't know. It's going to be interesting to see.
Jayson Davies
Absolutely. All right, so let's start to transition a little bit more into the special education and into ot you mentioned different curriculums, things like that. How might special education? Education look in a homeschooling model, not necessarily OT, just in general, right?
Sarah Collins
So really, like I mentioned before, it's the epitome of an IEP, because a person who is being homeschooled as maybe have their siblings around, but the family is choosing curriculums and choosing what happens during their day based on that child's specific needs. So when you're working with a family who is homeschooling like you can consider yourself working directly with that that team and saying, Oh, I mean, you you've got your whole day to work. You know, education throughout your entire day, not just like a nine to three, but you know, throughout your entire day, so you have so many options to work through.
Jayson Davies
Gotcha and then so again, continuing down that, that path. What about you mentioned IEPs? Do kids that are homeschooled have an IEP?
Sarah Collins
They can, it depends on the state, and I am not particular on what every single state does. We have a state of Pennsylvania, but there is also, there is an organization called HSLDA, which I think it's the Home School Legal Defense Association. And on that website, you can find out the home school laws for every state. And I actually would recommend you knowing them for your own state, because they're, like I said, if it continues to grow and there are, you know, it's 2.5 already million kiddos, then really we your chances are you're going to encounter someone who is homeschooled. So it's good to know those laws anyway. But here in Pennsylvania, you can, you can get an IEP, and we actually did for for my son when I was talking about his vision, because it was impacting his reading so much. And a lot of people will also do it specifically, just for the standardized assessments at the beginning, to be able to say how the how a child is growing, whether it's, you know, with my my kid personally had the VMI done over there at the school. He had the mvpt, and then he also had a lot of neuropsych testing done over at the school, and then we came up with his IEP from there.
Jayson Davies
Okay, so outline that a little bit more, because I think what you're alluding to is a little bit of the Child Find and that a district, if you live within a district, they're still responsible for special education services if a student needs it, whether or not they necessarily attend that public school. Is that right? Or how did that work for you guys to initiate that process? Right?
Sarah Collins
So it worked for us because, you know, being an OT, I recognized it, and I was like, I I would like to a have this testing done, and then B, they helped me to figure out the reading program. So in the public school that Orton Gillingham that I was talking about is the Wilson reading program. The Wharton Gillingham is was taken from that and designed for public or for homeschoolers. But basically, when I recognized it, then I contacted the public school system. And people who are homeschooling may go through that route if they can, or if they know to, or they may just do, you know, through the medical model. So it really, it really depends on the family. But yeah, so what we did is went in, we had all the testing done once I requested it, and then then they developed the IEP, and we had to have, you know, a regular, regular ed teacher sitting in there and a special ed teacher sitting in there, which was actually kind of funny. I think they just didn't really know what to do with us. My husband.
Jayson Davies
Couldn'tsign on the general education, special education, and the OT line all over.
Sarah Collins
I know, and my husband was sitting in there with us. I mean, this goes back to the stigma, but he was like, Sarah, I feel like they were waiting to see like you and show up in your denim dress and walk out from with your apron OT or something like, I know they didn't really know what to do with us, but yeah, because they ended up having people who had no idea who my son even was in the meeting just to fill those spots. So again, that's that's another spot where I would encourage you as as a school system, or as an OT who's sitting in on this IEP meeting with with a homeschool family, sure you're going to have to have those other people in the meeting, but really talk to them as if they know what they're doing, because chances are they do.
Jayson Davies
Yeah. All right. So then as far as services go, then did the public school have their employees provide services to your son?
Sarah Collins
So they offered and they could have, he qualified for ot once a month, which I kind of said, well, he lives with an OT, and so I and he was getting vision therapy at the at the same point, they offered him also the Wilson reading program there, but he was going to have to go in every day for half a day and and that would have been great, had we not had all the. So, you know, I mentioned all the other co ops that we do, and so it just it would have changed our entire life, really, our life for my other children as well, to be able to get him there back. And so we found the same program that we could do, that I could do at home. And so we did that. So now he just follows up every year to for the testing.
Jayson Davies
Gotcha. And then what about, in general, for ot speech, type of services? What are the options for you? Kind of mentioned that some do medical, some do public school. But if you can go a little bit more into detail about what that may look like, right?
Sarah Collins
So I mean, again, it really depends on the state, and what the state is willing to to provide, or what there are laws. And again, that's on the HSLDA site of, you know, because everybody is entitled to the free and public, you know, education. So really, yeah, so then they should be able to go into the public school for services as they're needed, or sometimes they're pull, you know, people are coming to their homes, if they're younger, the same, same type of thing, or you might just choose to do it within the medical model. That really is up to what the parents decide.
Jayson Davies
Gotcha. So with your in your case, you said that the school was offering one time a month, OT, which I'm assuming would be some sort of collaboration consult.
Sarah Collins
You would think, but no, that's they offered us 30 minutes of direct occupational therapy, and which I said, that seems really not like it's going to do much good.
Jayson Davies
Okay, so then they want you to bring your son in to the school to provide that service?
Sarah Collins
Yes.
Jayson Davies
Okay, and so, I mean, some of these questions might seem ridiculous, but it's just shows kind of where we're at, yeah, and where we're not at, right?
Sarah Collins
Well, right? And why I think I'm needed, and why I think this podcast is needed.
Jayson Davies
Absolutely. So let's get into some of the nitty gritty. Um, obviously we as OTs and the OT school house in general, we like research. We really enjoy knowing what is out there. Can you share with us some of the research that you have uncovered as it may relate to homeschooling and students with special needs?
Sarah Collins
Yes, all right, so actually, quite a bit when we were well, let's just start first with the research on homeschooling itself. So there is a website. It's called N, H, E, R, I, the national home Education Research Institute, right? And so they get basic statistics even on homeschooling itself. And that's where I came up with the numbers and the growth and all of that. And we looked into that, obviously, a lot. I mean, I'm an OT I have a research brain. I looked into that before we were deciding to homeschool our own kids. Just another interesting thing from that is that on standardized testing, right kids who are in the public school system. Obviously the norm is at 50% we all know how to look at scores. So the average for homeschool families is 15 to 30% higher than that. So they're scoring within the 65/65 to 80th percentile. So which, again, I mean if you're looking at if every kid could have an individual like education plan, of course, they're going to score higher. Yeah. So there's that. It also has a research journal that is peer reviewed. Actually, the most recent article that came out was on the evidence based practices for homeschooling children with autism. So, yeah, I know, I was like, Oh, look at that. It's just right. I mean, this one just came out, and I was looking through it, but, you know, kind of preparing for this podcast. But it even goes into the practical applications of learning and looking at evidence based practices for just, you know, moving from math, sure, we're doing our math worksheet, and then we're going to carry it over to cooking, which you can do when you're homeschooling, on it on an everyday basis, or carrying it over into, you know, counting, if you're a little kid, you know, little kid ot counting the acorns outside on the tree. You know that you always have that flexibility and freedom to be able to do. So they also have articles there on social development and what social looks. Social Development looks like for kids who are homeschooled, that type of thing. So that's the basic research, just on homeschooling, right, where you can get most of that. Then when, also, when I was starting looking into homeschool, or starting the business, starting Collins Academy therapy services. I looked at just what is the research on homeschool and occupational therapy itself, and there's only actually printed out my copy right here. I gave everybody credit, but there's only one or. Article that I could find. It was by Susanne Iliff, and it basically is saying that, well, the question, the research question was, do people, even who are homeschooling, do they know about occupational therapy? Do they know how to find it? Do they know how to access it? And so their results were that yes, 90% of the people did that they had general knowledge of occupational therapy, of their service or of the people that they interviewed, 29% had actually used but most of those were using public or private insurance. So they're, they're in lies the need for me, yeah, that they're, you know, their conclusion was that there's an opportunity for ot practitioners to provide services for students who are homeschooled in their educational environment, or to promote those educational goals, which, yeah.
Jayson Davies
And it sounds like they're kind of coming in from coming at it, from saying that there needs to be An educational like public school type of service, not going to a clinic a few times a week or something like that, right? All right. And was it, was that also the article that talked about the coaching model, or was that a different article?
Sarah Collins
No, those are different articles. Those are the ones when I was trying to come up with, how am I actually going to open this consulting service. Because, I mean, I mentioned before that it took me quite a while because I had to work through, what does that look like for licensure? Because, you know, we talked about how many people who are homeschooling across the nation, but if I have to be only seeing the people who are homeschooling exactly in the state of Pennsylvania because of my license, I'm gonna run dry here pretty quickly, so I had to switch over and switch my thinking to more of a consulting versus direct therapy, and that's when I was looking at a lot of articles based on coaching. Jeremy, go ahead and go into that now.
Jayson Davies
Well I was gonna ask you, do you want to give a little bit more in depth about what you're doing first, or do you want to talk about the articles? And I think we're going to go over both, but whichever one you kind of want to go with first?
Sarah Collins
Okay, so basically, what, what I'm doing is, I start with an initial consultation. Is, you know, I again, we've had to kind of work through what, what I can call it, because it's not an official an initial evaluation. I am not doing direct therapy, and I have to be very clear about that, because, again, I'm only licensed in the state of Pennsylvania. So with that being said, what I do is is really talk to the parents about what their home school day looks like. Now, again, it's kind of hard, because a homeschool day is not a nine to three or 730 to, you know, 230 whatever the hours of a school they are, because education, the good old quote that we all like to say is education is an atmosphere. So when you're homeschooling, you're looking at all day long, what what your child's day look like, looks like, and how you are learning throughout that entire day. So I get the advantage of being able to talk through, within the homeschool lens of even ADLs in the morning and cooking breakfast and, you know, go their time when they're going outside, and their extracurricular activities. And so the parents and I really talk through that entire day, you know, I I use the Canadian occupational performance measure to set up the goals with the parents, like, what? So, what is your child doing? Well, where are you seeing needs? Are these needs? Do they have sensory needs? Do they have, you know, is it a positional or the time of day? Is so an environment need? Or is it specifically like my kid is having a hard time with reading? Okay? So why? You know, we talk through the entire thing, thinking of them as the expert in their child, but also as the homeschool educator. So after that, then what I do is provide them with recommendations for things that they can change in their homeschool day. So again, I typically work through the PEO model. So I'm thinking like, is it something, again, with a person, is it with the environment or with the occupation itself? And so we kind of talk through all that, and I give them some written recommendations. I'm also, my main thing is that I am, and I have to, again, make it very clear I am not doing direct therapy. But a lot of times what I'm doing is trying to say, okay, so it looks like your kid needs direct therapy, and these are the ways you can go about it, either through the clinic or through the school system. And then I'm, you know, talking to OTs to make sure that they're homeschool friendly, that they're not going to come out with that, that bias right at the beginning and say, No, you know your educational choice isn't right, because each family's educational choice is their families. So I talk. Through a lot of that with OTs and try to network that way.
Jayson Davies
Wait, so how do you do that? Then are you like talking to an OT that might be evaluating the student that you consulted with?
Sarah Collins
If they need direct occupational therapy. Sometimes it's like at once I talk through with his family that no you know what, your kid is going to have a better day if we start off earlier in the day? Or I can say things like, you know, I can look at handwriting programs with that family because so if it's something that I feel like they need direct occupational therapy, then yes, I am. I'm calling around for OTs in their service area and finding someone that I think is going to fit well with them.
Jayson Davies
Oh, wow. Okay, and so then that parent then meets up with that occupational therapist, and it may or may not be through the public school, it may or may not be through a clinic or home health type of model, but you're kind of helping them with that. Okay, interesting, yeah, yeah, all right. So then you do that initial evaluation. You follow up? Do you, I guess. Do you do follow ups, other than trying to provide or trying to help them find services? Do you do, like a monthly consult to kind of just see how things are going, or something like that?
Sarah Collins
I do, I do twice monthly, and they're usually 15 or 20 minutes. I mean, they're really short, but it's looking at we continue on with our copm, you know, there, I'm looking at their scores. There, I do. I usually do that every again, I just started this in October, but, but my goal is to be doing that every three months, just to looking at my pre and post measures and and all of that, but, and their satisfaction scores as they're going through. But, yeah, so we then look at those recommendations, and is there anything new, or is there something that we need to tweak, or sometimes just reminding them of the recommendations that were already made. Or sometimes they're like, You know what this is? This has been going really well, but now I'm seeing this, you know. So We'll then talk through that, that next issue.
Jayson Davies
Gotcha. Okay, so we started down the road, and we went the other way. But about the research? Well, what research did you look up when you were kind of developing your program, right?
Sarah Collins
So I knew, because I couldn't do direct therapy that. And you know, there are so many people out there that are doing teletherapy right now, obviously, and more power too. Yeah, I think that's fantastic, fantastic. But I knew what I was going to be doing is working more with the families instead of with the child itself, again, because I cannot do direct therapy across the nation, so I had to look up, how am I going to effectively coach or effectively kind of explain the way that an OT thinks, or the way that I'm thinking, to help them within their home school. So I started, there's an article that came out in 2013 that is the effectiveness of occupational performance coaching and improving children's and mother's performance and Mother self confidence.
Jayson Davies
That's a mouthful.
Sarah Collins
But it was by Fiona Graham, and so that one really helped me to look through, what is performance coaching? How am I going to have pre and post test or post service measures? Really, what they did was they had a pre they did the copm, the goal attainment scale and, oh, it's leaving my head right now. But they did one other one, I think the POS, PSoC, but I don't remember what that stands for, because I don't use it. I'm glad that they did, but I did not anyway. And so what they found was when they were providing the emotional support, then they were giving an information exchange rate. So that's kind of where I am tutoring, or I am having a conversation with the family on what my thinking is, and then they had a structured process from there. So what they found was that even in just setting the goals, it allowed the family to be able to really hone in on what their needs were. And even just with those setting goals, they had a huge difference in the actual occupational performance, which I thought was really interesting, that even just having a parent set a goal themselves made an impact, had an impact on how the kid did or how they performed. And the other interesting thing was that it had generalized improvements across, you know, their lifespan or not, across their lifespan, across other occupational therapy occupations, other occupation. Yeah. So I thought that was really, really interesting. And at six weeks later, they had all maintained this, their levels on the cop, their satisfaction levels and their performance levels.
Jayson Davies
So just to clarify there, they set up a goal, potentially with an OT or with someone, the parent. Set up a goal. No services were rendered, but the students still made progress, potentially, because the parent had that on the front of their mind and was actually cognizant about what they were doing.
Sarah Collins
And because they had coaching on Okay, so this is how we could help to make a difference to achieve this goal. So the occupational therapist was coaching.
Jayson Davies
Did they say how, how often that was, or was it just like a, hey, here's the goal, here's some things you can try?
Sarah Collins
So they had, I'd have to actually look back at it to see when, when they were me. I think they met four times. Okay? So it was like, but some were even, it was like one week before they set the goals, and then they were setting the goals, and then they met a couple weeks after, again, I'd have to look back at.
Jayson Davies
Either way. It was a lot less than one time a week for 30 minutes for the entire school year.
Sarah Collins
Exactly, exactly, or one time a month. Yes, yes. Okay, yes. So I thought, I mean, that one was super fascinating to me. But then from there, I was like, Alright, so we can say that coaching would make a difference. But what exactly does coaching look like, right? So then I looked at an article. It was called occupation, occupation based coaching by means of telehealth for young children with autism spectrum disorder. So and they also mentioned in there some other coaching philosophies that I looked at, but from that article and putting those two together is where I came up with, what are the pre and post measures that I'm going to do? You know, the cop that I already talked about. I also a lot of times will give the PD, because that helps for us to really hone in on where, what occupations we are needing to address during the day. Which one was that the PD, the pediatric, I forget what the E is, disability inventory, yeah. So that one, and that's a parent survey too. Okay, so, yeah, so what is that? E that's really gonna bother me, because I always say PD, I never, I don't really remember even when it hit.
Jayson Davies
But for you, yeah.
Sarah Collins
Thank you. Thank you. But yeah. So those are two that I the copm is obviously during the interview, and the PD, I typically send out before I meet with the family. So the occupation based coaching. Once I read through, you know, this article too, it really comes up with making sure that you have authentic contexts with the family, that you're considering the family's interests and the goals, and again, that's that's where I'm using the copm and then having the caregiver interaction, right? So that's where I am explaining what my level of thinking is and why. And so I'm doing that with the parent, and then the having the parent reflect back to me. Okay, so this is what you're thinking, Sarah, and this is why. And so when they can reflect back to me, I know that they're they're getting it, and then they're able to generalize into their own home school, and then the parents sense of competence scale. So I have not used that one yet. I haven't researched quite a bit, but researched it yet, but that is one of the ones that they used in this evaluation or this article as well, and then, you know, we come up with our joint plan together. So that's what I'm saying. You know, I provide the written recommendations, but they're all based on that. They can take those recommendations and put them into a plan, and I typically have them say, All right, so what is one thing that you're going to take away from this, or one plan that you're going to implement? And that's gotcha, that's how we're applying the research research.
Jayson Davies
And putting it into place. Okay, so definitely using more of a coaching model. And then if people, if families, do, find it necessary, they're seeking out therapy through another mean, potentially someone that is more local. I mean, this is an experience that I recently, you know, one of my, my own personal ways of therapy for myself, is searching a database called Ed, join out here. Ed, J, O, I n.org and that's basically just a place where OTs, where public schools in California and all over the nation post their jobs, and so it's my own personal therapy sometimes, just to browse, just to see what's available out there.
Sarah Collins
Grass is always greener, right, right?
Jayson Davies
And one was actually charter schools. And I know a lot of and I don't know if you know anything about charter schools or how much you know about them, but I'm seeing more charter positions open up for occupational therapists, and a lot of them are this type of virtual, online coaching type of service, it seems like. And it just got me thinking. I was like, Man, I'm about to talk to Sarah, who knows so much about this. But are some homeschools through a charter system?
Sarah Collins
So, and that is so it's very different based on the state and your California, right? Yes, yeah, okay, so it's interesting because I was actually just working with a family who was out in California, and they were telling me that the way that it works out there is that, or homeschooling works is that you end up with, I think, an umbrella school, and you have to pick but then they get funds through that to help provide for curriculum that does not happen here in Pennsylvania. We don't have that, but our laws are different. We have to have we're evaluated at the end of the school year by just an evaluator that we pick. We have to do standardized testing when the kids are in third grade and fifth grade and eighth grade. So yeah. So it's all different based on the state. So when I was talking to this family in California, what they were saying was, yes, that they can get services through the school system, through their their umbrella charter school. So it sounds like that, that charters, you know that, yeah, the ones that you were looking for would.
Jayson Davies
And they would provide the service in some form another, I actually know a certified ot assistant. I'm trying to get her to come on, because she's doing because she's doing something similar. She's a certified ot assistant who works for a charter school, and so she actually drives from home to home, old, not right now, of course, but she's driving home to home, and she absolutely loves it, because the parent and the teacher, I mean, the same person, and they're so invested. And and so you get that carryover so much more than you might in an SDC classroom where it is, let's be honest, about a three to 12 ratio.
Sarah Collins
Right, right and right. And so what I would encourage you to do is to also look at what the homeschool philosophies are, or when you're going into this person's house, to know, oh, there are so many different homeschool philosophies. I'm going to ask them about it, because once you get that parent talking about what their education model is, or what parents who are so passionate about it because it's it is different. So obviously they're making a choice, and they're thinking they have probably searched and searched and searched and so they've they're pretty passionate about what they're doing. So for you to go in knowing that there's different options and to go in prepared with some questions for that family, you're going to have a whole different rapport than Yeah, how is your kid socialized?
Jayson Davies
Definitely, that's crazy. All right, so let's continue on. How do you think other OTs who find themselves working from home or even working closer with parents right now? Because obviously, when we're providing teletherapy, I know I kind of require that some sort of person over the age of 18, whether it be an older sibling or the parent, is there. How do you kind of recommend that they take advantage of what you've said today, with far as the research and the practical implications. I mean, obviously we're all practicing in this weird situation right now, but you kind of have had some experience with it, yeah.
Sarah Collins
You know. I think you know, even going back to that, that first article that I was talking about, where they said that that the occupation or the therapy was generalized over other occupations, it wasn't just the goals that they set. I think that is really something to keep in our brains, that if we are talking to these parents, more even about what we're doing and why it is way, it is more likely to be carried over than if we're just doing something and then, you know, at the end of the session, be like, Oh, that was great. Or taking your, you know, seven minutes that you have at the end and saying, This is what we did today. But instead really looking at them as your partner and talking to them about how and why, so that then it can generalize over. I also think right now, since we can't really put our hands on people during the, you know, even during direct sessions, and probably once we get back, it's going to be very different as well. You know, to be able to talk to the the family about where you're putting you know, when you're trying to create core stability, what, how you're providing that assistance and encouraging them to do that it, you know they can then do it a lot easier later on, because you're specifically coaching and working with that family. So, you know, I obviously we need to be working with children or working, you know, adults. We need to have that direct therapy, but to consider the family as more of a team member. I think moving forward is going to make a huge difference in our profession.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, and, I mean, I was gonna ask you a little bit later on, you know, how, how can we take what we have into practice, even when we go back into the schools? And, I mean, I'm just trying to, as you're talking, I was thinking to myself, I think I've only seen or worked with a student in the school system while their parent is there a handful of times, and I've been in the system for eight years, and most of those were during an evaluation, not even a treatment. This is during the evaluation, the parent brings them in for for evaluation, and then I don't see them again until they're in the school system, and then I'm seeing them me and the student. It usually.
Sarah Collins
Right? Well, then that's because you're working. I mean, your goals are all set based on how they can work in the educational model. I mean, their goals are throughout that that exact time period, whereas, again, the difference when you're homeschooling and is that your education is not just that specific when you're doing your math or your science, it is your entire day, absolutely. So I don't really remember where I was going with that.
Jayson Davies
Oh, I mean, I think, I think it just, even though maybe we're not speaking with the parent as much, once we get back into brick or mortar, we really have to basically almost replace the parent with the teacher, because the teacher is there for six hours a day with that student as our aides, right? Unfortunately, they can't. It's hard to find time that you can work with them. Be honest, they're with students six hours a day, so that doesn't leave them a lot of time for you to interject and work with them yourselves.
Sarah Collins
I would love to see you know the IEP meetings when you're coming up with those goals. If you can look at this article that is talking about when the family was involved in making the goals, the differences, and I mean, it said that some of the the success came before the interventions even happened, because their families were setting the goals. So if you're looking at setting them with a teacher or setting them with the parent, how different can that be for the child? Because everyone's involved and everyone is invested.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, and that's a big takeaway, because oftentimes at an IEP, the IEP team develops goals. Prior to the IEP. We walk in and we ask for approval, versus calling that, calling the parents ahead of time and saying, hey, where do you want to go with your students goals?
Sarah Collins
Right? Right? I mean, again, it is. That's the best piece area. You know, of course, everybody's time, everybody being so busy. But I also wonder, once we're getting back and the parents have really been involved in their children's education right now, whether, I mean, it was a forced pandemic schooling, or whether, you know it is, they're all more involved in their children's education right now, and so going back into the school system, I'm wondering if they're going to want even more involvement at that point. If they're going to say, Hey, I know how my kid does with fractions now, and I know how he learned when we were doing that, if it's going to be a different situation, I don't know.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, it's really interesting. I'm sure other therapists are seeing it that we have parents saying, hey, I need help with behaviors. Yeah, right. And they don't realize that it's they're not seeing different behaviors than we're seeing at the school. These are the same behaviors, but they think that maybe they're seeing those behaviors because they're at home all day, right? Not always the case. I mean, we were seeing those behaviors at the school, but they just didn't know about it.
Sarah Collins
Right, right? And, yeah, so now that you know, everyone's kind of on the same page, yeah. So I think it can be a fantastic thing for the future. I think also though, I mean, it's going to be hard and something to work through, but I think it really can make a big difference.
Jayson Davies
Yeah. And we just answered the next question I had was, how are things going to change forever based upon COVID 19, we talked a little bit. Oh, okay, let's talk about, how are things going to change forever in homeschooling, specifically not in therapy. How do you think this is going to change homeschooling?
Sarah Collins
Well, I mean, we talked a little bit before about whether it's going to the numbers are going to continue to increase and and I don't know. I do know that it is right now. This is not our typical homeschool either. You know, I mentioned before all of the US getting out how, however often we do, and the social interaction that my kids have with with other groups, and so all of that is different right now, and who knows when all of that will go back to normal? We also, it's funny, you know, I don't my kids. It's not that we're never on screens. But they are not used to zoom and they they are not used to having, you know, when they're learning to have like, 30 different faces staring right back at them from that's what we're doing with our nature study right now, and I found that they have about their attention span is of a net when that was happening. My son's like, changing his virtual background, yep.
Jayson Davies
Oh my god. I have so many kids. I'm like, show me your work sample. And he goes paper, and it blends into his background.
Sarah Collins
I do not he just think the Milky Way right now.
Jayson Davies
It's cars. This kid, he's just obsessed with cars. So he has a different Ferrari or Lamborghini, like every time I see him, Oh my gosh. All right. Last few questions, what tips do you have for any therapist who may be interested in dipping their toe into working with families who are homeschooling?
Sarah Collins
All right. So I kind of mentioned already that just knowing that there are different philosophies of homeschooling and different philosophy. Of education to be able to talk to the family, even just to ask the question, oh, so what kind of homeschooling do you do? Or what is your specific philosophy? Can really get them talking, and can you can find out so much about what the kid needs. Like, for example, with when I was talking before about we do classical learning, which takes, does take a lot of memorization when they're younger, and it also helps us. You know, we go through things with song, like adding things to song to help memorize, and we, or have, I have different movements or vision, or things like that that I'm adding in there. So it's good to know. Okay, so if you're doing the classical method, then these are some things that your kids are going to need and and to be able to say, okay, so, how do they memorize? You know, that's that's a good question to ask a person who is educating in our way. So just to know that there's different philosophies out there, and to ask those specific questions, or to say, You know what? What handwriting curriculum are you using? Or are you doing cursive things like that. I would also ask, you know what? What extracurricular activities are your kids involved with? The majority of homeschoolers are seeking out options for their kids to be involved socially so. Or another good question is, you know, does your child ever have to do public speaking? Right? I mean, the program that we do, my kids every single week have to do a presentation and so in front of their peers. So it is that is a huge part of our homeschool so for if, if I'm taking my kids somewhere, for somebody to ask them about that, or to ask me about it, you know, it's, it's, it is involving me, and is allowing me to set a goal and to look at a need differently than a person who would be in a public school system all the time. So I would just say really trying to think about your questions outside of the box, than just your social stigma that you know sometimes we talked about before.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, all right, cool. Well, before I let you go, then I just want to give you the opportunity to say any last words. Also give out your contact information, if you'd like to, and share any other resources you've you've listed a few already, the Pei, which I haven't I'll look that up. The performance.
Sarah Collins
The P, E, D, I Okay, yeah, pediatric.
Jayson Davies
You mentioned a few articles that I'll be sure to get from you so I can add to the show notes. And you also mentioned a few websites related to homeschooling that I will get up as well. But were there any other information you wanted to share.
Sarah Collins
Other than actually seeking out information? You know, I, in addition to when I'm working with families, sometimes giving making sure that I'm finding them, local occupational therapists, I'm also looking for the best resources to give to them. You know, for an example, I just was working with person on their new handwriting curriculum that was coming out, so that then when I can provide the best resources for these families, sometimes it is that I'm giving them places to go. You know, if you're looking online and you're just Googling something, there's so much out there. So for me to be that person, to sort through it all and to find what's really good for family is a lot better. So, and I love having ot resources. So if you are coming up with a new resource, and you think it would be good that homeschool families would love it, please send it to me and let me go through it and recommend it as I can or as it's needed, all right?
Jayson Davies
And then you mentioned your website. You want to say it one more time so that people could check it out if they wanted to.
Sarah Collins
Yeah, absolutely. So it's www, dot Collins, Academy therapy.com, and I'm also on Instagram at Collins Academy ot services, and there I've been posting every week about a different way that homeschool and occupational therapy kind of coincide. This week I was talking about motor planning and how we how I encourage that through my with my own kids throughout the day. So typically, you'll see my kids on there a lot, but it is how I'm thinking as an OT and help to give resources out to families. And that's the same way that, you know I was, I was talking about that. I was promoting, not promoting, but discussing another occupational therapy resource this week. So send in my way.
Jayson Davies
Sounds good, alright. Well, thank you, Sarah, so much for coming on and sharing all that wonderful information about homeschooling. It was it's actually really, really nice to hear about a different way for education, so I really appreciate it. And thank you.
Sarah Collins
Yeah, it was great. Thank you. Have a good time.
Jayson Davies
Thank you. All right. Well, take care. And I'll see you next time. All right. Sounds good. Sounds good. All right. Well, I want to give a huge shout out to Sarah Collins for coming on and sharing how she is providing occupational therapy consultation for students who are working in a home schooling model, not only the students, but also the families, because they are so important. As she shared, I really don't think there's many of us that are working in that homeschooling model. And with what she was talking about, potentially two to 8% of students moving toward that type of model every year, it's only going to get bigger and bigger, along with everything that's going on in the world right now, I'm sure there are many parents that might be looking into going to that model, so who knows. We shall see. But anyways, be sure to check out the show notes at ot schoolhouse.com, forward slash episode 49 the links and the articles that Sarah talked about will be there and then. If you are interested in earning a certificate of completion for listening to this episode, be sure to also head over to the show notes, or you can also go to OT schoolhouse.com, forward slash, PD, as in professional development. There you can also purchase the episode professional development opportunities. So check those out, and we will see you back here for episode number 50. Take care. Bye, bye.
Amazing Narrator
Thank you for listening to the OT school house podcast. Now that you've listened to this episode, head on over to OT schoolhouse.com forward slash, PD, as in professional development to earn your continuing education certificate until next time class is dismissed.
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