OTS 123 - Incorporating Movement and Sensory in the Classroom
- Jayson Davies
- Apr 30, 2023
- 34 min read
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Welcome to the show notes for Episode 123 of the OT Schoolhouse Podcast.
Ready to talk All Things Sensory?
In this episode of the OT Schoolhouse podcast, Jayson interviews Rachel Harrington, COTA/L AC, and Jessica Hill, COTA/L, about incorporating movement and sensory activities in the classroom and at home.
We discuss sensory diets, fidgets, primitive reflexes, and other strategies for supporting children with sensory needs. Jessica and Rachel also share practical tips for teachers, parents, and caregivers on how to create a sensory-friendly environment and promote self-regulation.
Tune in to learn more!
Listen now to learn the following objectives:
Learn how sensory diets can help children regulate their sensory input throughout the day.
Learn how fidgets can be a helpful tool for children who need to move or have tactile stimulation.
Identify how primitive reflexes can impact a child's development and should be addressed through movement activities.
Learn how you can help teachers to incorporate movement breaks into their lessons to help students stay focused.
Resources:
Impactful Quotes From the Episode
"Kids need to move more. So we always recommend that if they are sitting in the classroom or sitting down for a focus task for 30 minutes, then after 30 minutes, they get up and move for between five and fifteen minutes" -Jessica Hill, COTA/L
"We like to teach practitioners and teachers and parents to incorporate these functional movements, that not only wake up the brain and facilitate that sensory break, but they're also rhythmic, and they're also beneficial for working towards integrating those reflexes" -Rachel Harrington, COTA/L AC
“When it comes to educating our teachers, we need to recognize the limited time that they have, and they just want the strategies that they can use right now” -Jayson Davies, M.A, OTR/L
"75% of a classroom has retained primitive reflexes" -Rachel Harrington, COTA/L AC
"We're all sensory beings, and so all students can benefit from these sensory activities that the therapists are providing to the teachers, and so just teaching them how to do it with the entire class is important" -Jessica Hill, COTA/L
Guest Bio
Rachel Harrington and Jessica Hill are Harkla's in-house Certified Occupational Therapy Assistants (COTA). They have worked with children for over seven years in outpatient pediatric settings. They specialize in sensory integration, primitive reflexes, teaching regulation strategies, and child development. They are the hosts of the All Things Sensory Podcast and have created several digital courses for parents, therapists, and educators.
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Episode Transcript
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Jayson Davies
Hey there. Welcome to Episode 123, of the OT Schoolhouse podcast, I appreciate you listening in today. If you love supporting your students with sensory strategies, with movement, with potentially even some primitive reflexes, you are going to love our guests today, Jessica Hill and Rachel Harrington are both certified occupational therapy assistants, and together, they host the All Things sensory podcast by harkloe. Today, Jessica and Rachel are joining us to talk about how school based otschoolhouse com, incorporate movement into the classroom to support both individual students as well as groups of students. We discuss things like sensory diets, fidgets versus toys, primitive reflexes and more. So sit back, relax and enjoy the episode as we welcome to the show. Jessica Hill and Rachel Harrington.
Amazing Narrator
Hello and welcome to the otschoolhouse. Comcast, your source for school based occupational therapy, tips, interviews and professional development. Now to get the conversation started, here is your host, Jayson Davies class is officially in session.
Jayson Davies
Rachel and Jessica, welcome to the OTS podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Jessica Hill
Thank you for having us.
Rachel Harrington
We're excited to be here.
Jayson Davies
Awesome. Well, I really appreciate you both being here. You both run the All Things sensory podcast, which I know has been around for a while. How many episodes do you have now?
Jessica Hill
250 something.
Rachel Harrington
Yeah.
Jessica Hill
Yeah.
Jayson Davies
Congratulations. I mean, we're at like 120 ish or so. So I can just, I know how much work goes in to have 250 episodes. That's crazy.
Jessica Hill
Yeah, it's been a it's been a labor of love. It's honestly just been a journey. And it's fun. It has some fun. I feel like we started before podcasts, like really became popular. We just kind of got in at the right time. But it's, it's been awesome.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, yeah. And, I mean the perfect topic, especially for occupational therapists, even though I know that all things sensory goes way beyond just OTS listening, but let's kind of just start there really quickly, all things sensory. What made you dive in with all things sensory?
Jessica Hill
You know? We I think, you know, taking it way back, we started the podcast initially, just because, as clinicians, we were struggling to have the amount of time to talk to our clients, parents and caregivers after each session. And we're like, how can we reach these parents and teach them everything that we know in a way that's easy for them to digest, and that way, they're they're understanding, oh, they're working on this, you know, swinging activity, and this is why. And so, really, it started there, and then we both just are so passionate about sensory system and just spreading the word and making it more of a normal thing, because everyone has a sensory system, and everyone needs to know about these tools to help it stay regulated.
Rachel Harrington
And what's really cool is that the podcast has expanded, and we have a lot of therapists and educators teachers who listen to us as well, and we'll get messages from them, and we'll get messages from therapists. And it's just really cool that our audience has grown to just encompass everyone who has a child or who was working with a child, and it's just been really amazing.
Jayson Davies
That's awesome. That's great. And of course, in addition to being podcast host, so they'll all think sensory podcast, you are actually yourselves occupational therapy practitioners. And so I Love You know, when we have multiple guests on, it's kind of hard to know who's who for those listening. So I want to give you each a moment to kind of introduce a little bit about yourself and who you are in the world of occupational therapy. So Jessica, would you like to get us started?
Jessica Hill
Sure, yeah, I'm Jessica Hill. I'm a certified occupational therapy assistant. I've been in the world for over nine years, just, well, just about nine years, I think, is what it is. My son is nine, and so that's how I keep track. But yeah, worked in outpatient clinics for several years. I have a love for early intervention. I love that birth to three or four years, and then kind of taking through our journey about two years ago, we joined harkla and have become a part of the harkla team for the last couple of years,
Rachel Harrington
and I'm Rachel, and I am also an occupational therapy assistant, and it's funny, because Jessica and I went to school together and worked together, and in school, we really weren't friends. We just like, were partners here and there, and it wasn't until we were working in the clinic together that we really just kind of became friends and decided to kind of go on the entrepreneurial route in the clinic. And I I also am. I have two little kiddos, and once I had my son, who's two and a half, I I stopped working in the clinic, and I own another ot related business. It's called sensational brain, and it's all continuing education for occupational therapy practitioners. And so I just love talking.
Jessica Hill
About this clearly podcast.
Rachel Harrington
But it's just really fun just taking what we know from OT and just putting it into real life, and I use it with my kiddos. You know, obviously every day you're immersed in it. So it's been fun.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you for introducing a little bit about yourselves and kind of going one step further to learn a little bit more about each of you. What is one thing as we transition into talking about movement and sensory What is one thing that you both do to kind of get your brain waking up, whether it be in the morning, in the middle of the day, or what is one thing you like to do to to just to wake that brain up?
Jessica Hill
I don't do this first thing in the morning, but I usually do it early in the day, and I'll work out. And for me, I prefer to lift weights, and so if I can get in a good workout early in the day, that kind of sets my day up, right? I do try to go outside and go for a walk at some point during the day, whether it's earlier in the day or later in the afternoon, just to get outside and get that fresh air as well. Those are my two go tos.
Jayson Davies
Awesome. And what about you Rach?
Rachel Harrington
Mine would be, you know, our mornings in this season of life are a little chaotic, and I generally try to get outside for a walk in the morning with the kiddos. I will put a drop of essential oil, like an alerting essential oil in the shower in the morning for some olfactory input and a nice hot cup of decaf coffee.
Jayson Davies
That doesn't work. Just kidding. Here I am drinking Starbucks at what time is it 1pm in the afternoon,but no, I'm right there with you. I enjoy working out two to three times a week. I'm waking up early and getting to the gym. And same thing with the walks. You know, I've got my one year old and around 8am after we've had some breakfast or so, we kind of get our little tricycle out and we go for a walk. So right there with you, with those two ideas.
Jessica Hill
Makes a big difference.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, exactly. And that kind of segues perfectly into our next question. Here is, what can you tell us about that connection between movement and learning, and why is it that movement actually helps us with getting our day started and learning?
Rachel Harrington
Well, so as humans, we are designed to move and in today's day and age, people just aren't getting enough movement. And we see that in sleep. We see that in just sensory output, sensory input. We just see so many challenges come from not only adults not moving enough, but kids not moving enough. And I'm not talking about, you know, from a from a health standpoint, because obviously, it's healthy to move, but it's just so important to regulate your sensory system by movement.
Jessica Hill
Yeah, and research shows that movement does have an impact on learning. And in fact, what we've seen is that for adults who are sitting at a desk working the best ratio of sitting and working to movement is about 45 to 50 minutes of sitting. And you know, if you're on a screen, working and then getting up and moving for five to 10 minutes, and that that actually increases productivity, focus and attention. The same goes for our kids. However, our kids need to move more. So we always recommend that if they are sitting in like the classroom or sitting down for a focus task for 30 minutes, then after 30 minutes, they get it up and move for between five and 15 minutes. And getting outside for movement is even more beneficial than any movement outside or inside, because you get the natural light, you get the grounding from the earth. So if your movement breaks, can be outside. It's even better.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, getting it's vitamin D, right? That the sun gives you, I think, I mean, you got to get your vitamin D in so.
Jessica Hill
Well, especially if you're, if you're indoors and you have fluorescent lights shining down on you. Or if you're looking at a screen for long periods of time, it actually affects your brain. And so getting outside and making sure you're getting that natural light is very important.
Jayson Davies
You know, you say that as I have like, two bright lights shining in my face as we record a podcast.
Jessica Hill
not always the best in following our what to do. It's all about it's all about moderation, right?
Jayson Davies
Yep, yep, absolutely great. Well, in addition to talking all things sensory, I know you also like to talk about primitive reflexes on your show frequently. And so my question is, is, when we're talking about movement in the classroom, do you also try to work in some of those motor reflexes at the same time, or are you primarily focused on the sensory input that the movement provides? Does that make sense?
Rachel Harrington
Ideally, if you can kill two birds with one stone, that's the perfect world, because in the classroom, there isn't a lot of time to be incorporating this beautiful reflex and Integration Plan and sensory diets. It's just kind of a just kind of a jumble of, let's see what we can get when we can get it right. And so I think the the cool thing that we like to teach practitioners and teachers and parents is is to incorporate these functional movements that not only wake up the brain and facilitate that sensory break, but they're also rhythmic, and they're also beneficial for working towards integrating those reflexes. I just feel like our kids would be at such a such an advantage if we could get ahead of the reflexes. Because some of the research that we're finding is, you know, 75% of a classroom has retained primitive reflexes at least one and if we can incorporate these exercises into every classroom, how often are we going to see learning disabilities? You know, I feel like ADHD is another thing that isn't going to be seen quite as much, if we can work on these reflexes and get them integrated. And the cool thing is, is that most of the activities or exercises that promote primitive reflex integration also provide great sensory integration and sensory input as well. So you know, one of our favorites is the windmill where you're standing. You look up and you reach down and touch your toes with your opposite hand, and then you look back up, and then you look down and touch your other foot with your opposite hand. Not only are you getting some really great vestibular input, some alerting input, but you're also working on the moral reflex with that head position change and looking up and down. So you're really killing two birds with one stone in that sense.
Jayson Davies
All right, good to know. Now you talked a lot about, you know, getting this information out to parents, getting this information out to teachers, talking specifically about being in the educational setting. What do you find most helpful for a therapist, giving these type of recommendations to a teacher? I mean, we can work with a student one time a week for 30 minutes, but in reality, right? These students need it every single day. So what have you found to help the therapist, help the teachers?
Rachel Harrington
Yes, I think the biggest part is education. I think, you know, and I have never personally worked in a school before, but I think if we can get, you know, lunch and learns, and if we can get those trainings to teachers two therapists, so that way everyone's on the same page. And it's not just one therapist trying to help one child, but actually trying to help the whole classroom. It's, you know, training the entire staff to recognize these are, this is the sensory system. These are the primitive reflexes. You can help foster that integration and sensory diet by doing these activities. So I think it really comes down to educating everyone and getting everyone on the same page and recognizing the benefits of it.
Jessica Hill
Yeah, and I think providing some simple movement strategies for transitions and sensory breaks can be helpful, because all classrooms have to transition throughout the day. So if the therapist can give the teacher three activity ideas to help with transitions that the teacher can do with the entire classroom, and maybe, you know, help one or two students specifically, while the rest of the class is also doing it on their own. Then that can be helpful. Because, you know, I think Rachel already mentioned this, but we're all sensory beings, and so all students can benefit from these sensory activities that the therapists are providing to the teachers, and so just teaching them how to do it with the entire class is important.
Jayson Davies
Absolutely, yeah, totally agree. We need to get more in with the teachers so that they can do a lot more of this. You know, as you were speaking, there something came to my mind, and that's go noodle. Are you familiar with goat noodle?
Jessica Hill
My son uses that in his class,
Jayson Davies
Awesome, awesome. So I have a love, hate relationship with goat noodle. I love the idea that it is out there. You know, there's a lot of movement stuff out there, but a lot of the students, especially the students that we might be working with, one on one small group, they have a real tough time with following along. You know, some of those kids who have Praxis issues, they they struggle with it. And so I just want to ask you, have you experienced this at all? And what might you recommend to an educator who is seeing that, you know, they got one or two kids that are struggling a little bit?
Rachel Harrington
Yeah, I'm thinking like, if the whole classroom is doing the Go noodle activity and you're working with one or two kiddos, I wish that that they could go through it and practice the motions, you know, stop it every I don't know, 10 seconds, and practice the motions. And, you know, if it's a repetitive dance, just to practice the the motions, or I would have maybe the other students teach the kiddos who maybe you were working on on it with your caseload, almost like a buddy system. Like, Hey, these are how we do the dance moves. Or, I haven't watched goonao in a long time. So crazy to me. I think the buddy system is cool because then you're also teaching the students how to work together and how to help each other, right? So you're facilitating that social engagement at the same time. So I think that's a great idea.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, I like that one too. And I mean, after you do the same go noodle video, you know, five times, 10 times in a row, you do have some kids that have memorized it, so why not just turn off the screen and let those kids hop in front of the class and kind of run it, and then you can go at whatever speed you want to go at,
Rachel Harrington
Yeah, like, yeah. I think slowing it down is it will be huge, and videos and mirrors. Oh, there's so many things now.
Jayson Davies
So many things. All right, very cool. All right, back to our regularly scheduled program here. I want to go kind of through different things. You know, we have kids that need more alerting strategies. We have kids who maybe need less alerting strategies. And Jessica, I think it was you that already mentioned, kind of the windmills. But if you see a student or a group of student appearing a little tired, understimulated, what are some of your go to strategies?
Jessica Hill
I think getting up out of the desk is important, even if it's just having the student get up and go get a drink of water from the water fountain. Just that simple, getting up and moving and changing the visual area where they are for just a minute, getting a cold drink of water and then coming back. Can be, I mean, it can be as simple as that. If you want to make it more complex, you can have maybe the entire classroom stand up and do couple of windmills, couple of wall or chair push ups, maybe some sort of, like mouth Imitation Game, where they all where the whole class makes popping noises with their mouth. I think just getting the entire class involved is huge, though, because you know, if you see one student who's appearing lethargic and losing focus, chances are there's a couple of other students who are probably also experiencing that. And so again, just that movement helps everyone so get the entire class involved.
Rachel Harrington
Yeah, I'm kind of thinking about if a teacher doesn't want to take a break from the entire lesson plan and, you know, round everybody up and try to corral everybody a really simple way to just get a head position change, which that head position change is very alerting to the nervous system we could and for criminal reflexes, just tipping back in the seat and tipping the head back and looking up at the sky, and getting our arms in extension, and our legs and extension, basically doing like a starfish, and then folding down into like a little pretzel and doing that, that motion just five times. Everyone stays in their seat. They're getting that head position change. It's fun. You can turn on a metronome and have them do it with the metronome at 60 beats per minute. So really trying to encompass that multi sensory learning environment, that's when kids are going to thrive, not just sitting in their chairs and not focusing. So I think just modifications are huge.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, yeah. And so that was some things that might be a little understimulating. Do you find that if a student may be overstimulated. Do you find yourself using similar strategies, or are you customizing it throughout the day?
Jessica Hill
It depends. It definitely depends, and it depends on the kids. So I think, yeah, you do have to kind of customize it sometimes for some of the students, you know, we want to look at the different types of sensory input and what they do to the body right? So that vestibular input is typically more alerting, proprioception is more calming. So if you have a student who's overstimulated and losing focus, then we want to do something that's more proprioceptive based to try to help bring their nervous system back down to a more regulated state. And sometimes that looks like chair push ups or self hubs, maybe big squeezes, arm, squeezes, hand squeezes, maybe some deep breaths, something that's simple in their seat.
Jayson Davies
Very cool, awesome. You know, our primary audience here at otschoolhouse podcast is OTs, and I know many of them are listening to you just like, yes, yes, yes, exactly. And so I actually want to take a step back to that question that we talked a little bit earlier about, like, you know, convincing the teachers to to do some of this. And you both are in a very particular situation in the sense that you speak to parents within your podcast, within your courses and whatnot. And so I want to actually ask you all, what are you hearing back from teachers and parents. Are they asking you for evidence? Are they asking you for what type of resources, I guess, or what are their questions when you're trying to tell them this?
Jessica Hill
Yeah, I think parents and teachers don't ask for, like, research. Like, where's the research on this? Show me that evidence, right? They're kind of in a different area than we are as clinicians. It's mostly just like, What can I do for this specific child? It's usually a specific case by case scenario when they're asking us questions versus like, what can I do for the whole class? We don't really get that, and then parents oftentimes are asking us my you know, my child's melting down in class, my child's having trouble with social social situations. What can I do? How can I talk to the teacher? So those are usually the questions we get.
Rachel Harrington
We did actually have a PE teacher. A couple of PE teachers actually reach out to us and say that they had taken like our from a reflex course and our classroom course, and they had been implementing those activities into just PE, and they were seeing huge differences, and they said it was just so helpful. And I was like, that's one area of the school environment that can be so impactful. I mean, every kid goes to PE, and most kids are enjoying it while they're there. So if the teachers there can say, hey, what functionally can we incorporate to help these kiddos just thrive? I mean, done easy. Let's do it.
Jayson Davies
100% you actually mentioned two things that both of you mentioned one thing, I guess, that I love and Adapted PE teachers are one of my favorite people on campus. I get so close with my ape teachers for that exact reason. They like. They may not understand sensory but as soon as you start to explain it to them, they're like, that makes total sense. And then they'll come to me and they'll ask, like, hey, you know, Jacob, what do you suggest for him? You know, does he need crossing midline? Does he need, you know, different type of exercises? What can I do with him? And so, yeah, I absolutely love our PE and ape teachers, they are fantastic. And then really quickly, the other thing Jessica, you mentioned was, you know, teachers don't necessarily want the research, and that is something that we need to keep in mind when we're trying to educate them. We go to conferences. We're used to sitting down in our two hour, three hour courses, getting all the information. And I think when it comes to educating our teachers, we need to recognize the limited time that they have, and they just want the strategies that they can use right now.
Jessica Hill
Yes, for sure, that's kind of what we found as well, is they're like, just tell me what to do.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, yeah. All right now talking about, you know, discussing with teachers sensory diets and working with sensory diets in the classroom. Do you recommend sensory diets? And if so, what might a sensory diet look like?
Rachel Harrington
Yeah, we love sensory diets. We love sensory lifestyles and sensory just, just making sensory input normal in the classroom. And so I think it's difficult as practitioners to say this is what a sensory diet looks like, because they're so customized to each individual person. But generally, in the classroom, we like to incorporate movement activities, first to help kids reach their threshold, then we follow them with some proprioceptive activities that are grounding and organizing, and then we'll include some more specific things, like a visual tracking activity or an oral motor activity, like Jessica mentioned, with the popping. A visual activity could be something like bubbles for our younger kiddos or for older kiddos, just some like simple ocular motor tracking activities while they're sitting at the desk, and then our aura motor activities, just keeping it simple and structured and repetitive. And if we can get everybody up out of their seats, great. If not, then what can we do at the seat chair? Push ups, mouth bubbles and blowing and have like Velcro under the desk for a tactile pigeon?
Jessica Hill
Yes, yeah. So I think really customizing it to what the classroom looks like and what's feasible, because I just feel like time is the biggest barrier, and teachers just don't have the time to to break it down and say, This is what we're going to implement today, and it's going to take 30 minutes. Well, a 10 minute sensory diet with the whole class is really all we need. A couple of times a day during transitions. Typically,
Jayson Davies
Yeah, I love it, and I think I already know your answer to this, but I'm gonna ask it anyway. Sensory diets, do you see them as being a proactive measure or a reactive measure? Do we use it before you know a student may need it, or are we waiting to see a certain behavior before you implement it? Or both?
Rachel Harrington
Our goal with sensory diets is to be proactive, right? The goal of a sensory diet is to provide sensory activities that are unique to the individual to meet their sensory needs and help them feel regulated and ready to go. But then we do need those other sensory strategies in place for when a child does get get dysregulated? Because, I mean, you can have the perfect sensory diet in place, and the child is still going to have their moments when it's hard the fire alarm goes off. Yes, right? Everyone's dysregulated or they didn't get sleep the night before, so their sensory diets just not quite fitting for them today. So we also want to have those strategies available to them in the classroom for when they do get dysregulated for whatever reason.
Jayson Davies
Awesome. Now, I think it was Jessica, again, that mentioned fidgets a little bit ago, the little tactile fidget Velcro, whatever it might be, one of the questions I get both, well, mostly from occupational therapy practitioners, because teachers are coming to them, is teachers think everything is a fidget. And so how do you explain to someone, I guess, the difference between a toy and a fidget, to someone who isn't an occupational therapy practitioner?
Jessica Hill
I think for a fidget, for me, it's anything that we do while we are listening or learning, and so I always have adults stop and think about, what are they doing while I'm talking to you, or what are you doing when you're in a seminar or in class? Are you bouncing your leg? Are you clicking your pen? Are you fidgeting with your ring? Are you chewing gum? Yeah, so I think really a fidget is anything that helps, helps you focus? Are you doodling? That's another big one. And I think that that teaching students how to appropriately and efficiently use fidgets is really helpful in teaching them that they're great. You should use them. But when it gets to the point where you're flinging it across the room and it's hitting Sammy in the face, you know, that's definitely not being used as a fidget. So really, the education comes in in the classroom.
Jayson Davies
Great. And, you know, while we're still on this sensory diet, little area right here, I have found that you can't just give a teacher a piece of paper that has a sensory diet on it, right? Like we need to somehow make sure that it's actually going to be incorporated into the classroom. What are some strategies you already mentioned education a little bit, but, yeah, just build upon that. If you're giving a sensory strategy or sensory diet to a teacher, what more should you be doing to make sure it actually gets used?
Jessica Hill
I think talking to them about when they can actually use it and do it. You know, I've mentioned this already, but transitions are a go to place to implement sensory strategies. You know, the students are going from one place to another. There's a lot of noise, a lot of visual input, a lot of movement, so there's a lot of chaos, essentially. And so showing the teachers some of those sensory diet activities to use after a transition. And say, just try this three step activity with their classroom. It takes five minutes, and you'll do it as soon as your students come in from recess. And you'll do that, you know, once a day for a week. And then let's reassess and see if it's helping.
Rachel Harrington
My thought was, could you, as the therapist coming in, working with one student, or in a small group, take the classroom through the sensory diet? So that way you're demonstrating what it looks like, and you're almost running like a full group with the entire classroom when they have a five minute break with the teacher there exactly teaching the teacher, but you're actually taking the whole class through an inclusive sensory guide. Is that something that's feasible?
Jayson Davies
Yeah. And actually, as you're saying that I'm thinking of a research paper that came out is actually, I believe, some educational students, not ot students, that did this research, and they wanted to see how OTs and educators could work more closely together. And through their surveys, they found that teachers wanted more modeling, not just telling. They wanted us to actually come into the classroom and show them how to do it. They really appreciated that. So I think that's right on with what you're saying. Rachel, going into the classroom and actually, you know, showing the teacher what it looks like.
Jessica Hill
that's I just feel like, if it were me, that's what I would want. I'd want someone to come in and say, Alright, let's do it and just take, take the rain, take the bull, by the rain, and just show, show the teacher, like, this is what we're doing, but we're actually doing it while we're learning. So I think that'd be cool.
Jayson Davies
Yeah. And I think that just takes away so many of the hesitations the teacher might have right, like, they don't know if they're doing it right, or they don't know if it's going to work. And if we go into the classroom, we can actually show them exactly what it looks like. We can even record ourselves doing it so that we can just upload it to them and they can watch it whenever they want, and that way they don't have to wonder, what if I'm not doing it right, or am I getting an appropriate reception in it doesn't matter, because they've seen you do it, and they know what to expect. So yeah.
Rachel Harrington
It can be very scary and overwhelming when we start talking about all these different senses, the vestibular system and the proprioceptive system. But don't do too much, because if you do too much, you're going to rile up, and then it's going to be out of control. Like, it's very overwhelming, you know, for someone who has no background in sensory integration, and so I they probably just feel like they don't want to mess up. And, you know, I think just just giving them a simple breakdown, making it as easy as possible.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, yeah. And, you know, they have a lot of other things on their plate. My wife's an assistant principal. I mean, they have common core to worry about they've got certain amount of minutes that they have to reach for different areas of math and language arts and whatnot. So if we can give them just that quick five minute thing, we can show it to them and then let them know when to do it. I think that's a great idea. So thank you for that idea. All right, now we have mostly been talking about an individual student or an individual classroom for the last, you know, 20 minutes or so. I want to broaden that out a little bit. And if we want to, you know, get everyone on campus moving. How can we develop that school wide culture of of movement, supporting learning?
Rachel Harrington
That's a great question.
Jessica Hill
It is the question of the year,
Jayson Davies
Any ideas?
Jessica Hill
My gosh, I think, you know, we, we created a course, kind of with this goal, in mind of education, of, you know, teaching sensory integration to schools so that, yeah, it's not just one classroom, but it's the entire school, and having teachers go through that training to just learn what sensory integration is and why it's important.
Rachel Harrington
I think that teaching students about their own sensory needs and teaching them the benefits of movement From a sensory perspective, from like an arousal level perspective, like, Hey, if you want to wake up, go upside down, do a somersault, teaching them that they're in control over their own nervous system and that this even exists. And I feel like we get more buy in when the students are like, whoa. I feel good when I spend three times in each direction, you know. So I think shameless plug, our course does teach that, but I'm just trying to think of a way that the entire school could be on board with that, and I think it just takes a lot of the education from the top down and trickling down so that everyone's kind of on the same page. I mean, it would be my absolute dream, Jessica, I'm sure your dream too, to have, you know, every classroom learning this material, and just having some background in the sensory system and sensory integration. I just feel like it would make such a huge impact. Well, and two, like, if one teacher figures out this, these sensory strategies are helping my classroom, then ideally, that teacher could go teach their other teacher friends about it, and then it would be like a ripple effect of teachers teaching other teachers about it throughout the entire school. Yeah, and I don't think there's a there's a quick fix at all. I think it's gonna just take time. Unfortunately.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, you know, and I think we're halfway there. It's just getting over the hump. Because a lot of people, a lot of teachers, they're already using go noodle. But they may not necessarily be thinking, you know, my kids need a little bit more probe. This is the type of go noodle I'm going to look for vestibular I'm going to look for this go noodle. So they're already trying to incorporate that movement, but they need that extra little knowledge, that extra little support, to better understand how to gage what to use based upon what their students are, are looking like at that point. Does that make sense?
Rachel Harrington
Or even schools that don't have go noodle, right? Like maybe the old students who aren't into go noodle anymore, because it's for younger kids. So even those different types of strategies for the older students too, is go noodle kind of like the go to for movement right now in the classroom.
Jayson Davies
I think there's a few other programs that have been up and coming, but it's still either go noodle, or some people are just, you know, just YouTubing whatever, you know, movement activities on YouTube, and looking for it well.
Rachel Harrington
And I think go noodle became super popular during covid when lots of schools were on virtual, because my son did first grade all virtual during covid, and he had go noodle almost probably every day as part of like, their virtual class.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, yeah. I we were using it a little bit before covid, but absolutely during covid, it was the easiest way to get everyone doing it. And let's be honest, teachers were just trying to keep their their kids engaged during covid. And so maybe even more covid was or not more covid More go noodle might have been used because the kids were just, you know, if they weren't focused on you, then there are many other things to distract them around the house.
Jessica Hill
For sure. Yeah.
Jayson Davies
All right, so I want to talk a little bit more about the parents from the school based otschoolhouse. Perspective, because as school based OTs, you know, or OT practitioners in general, we are focused primarily on that classroom, that educational setting. But do you think there's any reason for or against ot practitioners, school based ot practitioners sending things? Home or getting parents involved with this movement and learning process.
Jessica Hill
I mean, I think there's certain challenges because the school based OTS don't typically have direct contact with the parents. So the little I mean, I did one of my fieldworks in the schools, and I don't I never met a single parent. I never talked to a single parent when I was doing my fieldwork in the schools. And so I think there is that added challenge of being able to connect with the parent.
Rachel Harrington
Yeah, I feel like, you know, handouts are great, they provide some information, but do they actually make it home into the hands of the parents? Also, side note, my nine year old comes home with 10 papers a day. Let's be real. Like sending these students home with papers is so challenging because, you know, as working parents, we don't have time to look through every single handout. Unfortunately, yeah.
Jayson Davies
Why not? Why not? Why don't you have time Jessica?
Jessica Hill
I know it's so tricky. I think, you know, sharing podcasts and videos in if there's a way to maybe through the teacher, or maybe the teacher can help facilitate that communication with the parents of the students you're working with, and sharing podcasts or videos that the parents can watch or listen to when they're driving or on the weekends, you know, I think that can be helpful.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, I agree. I know during covid Again, something that emerged from the craziness that was covid was videos, and I was sending home videos to Parents, and so I might create two, maybe three different iterations or versions of the same therapy activity based upon student levels. And so I'd send this group, you know, video, a this group, video, too. And so, you know, like, if you're thinking about the windmills, right, maybe one group is getting the full windmill, and then the other two groups are getting kind of accommodated or adapted versions of the windmills. So I think that's something that we can continue to do to an extent. But, yeah, use technology. I feel like we need to start using technology. Teachers are using programs that they can like instantly text to parents. So I think OTS should kind of be getting on board with that as well.
Jessica Hill
Do you feel like the carryover was there when you're sending videos?
Jayson Davies
During that time. Yes, I do think during covid, because that was the expectation, right? And not to mention, most parents were at home more than they are now. My guess is now it's probably a little bit less, but at that point we had the carryover. So I think there's ways to do it. I think you have to, you know, be a little you're always fighting for attention, right? And so there's ways to do it, but yeah, you're probably right. The carryover is going to be hit or miss. So yeah.
Rachel Harrington
In any field, though, honestly.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, yeah, you know. And I always tell people, right? Find the one person who wants to do that with you, like, you know, for some kids, it will work, because their parent wants that. And for other kids, you might have to do something different. You know, it might need to be more on campus, because, like you said, right, you've got 10 papers coming home. You're recording 18 podcast episodes a day, and you just don't have time to to do that. But, you know, I mean, some parents are ready for it, some others aren't for aren't ready for it, but you might be able to address that in a different way. You know, we're all trying to find which way will work for that one student. So yeah, all right, we got a few questions left, and I think this could be a fun, interesting one. Are there any misconceptions or myths about the role of movement within learning that you'd like to debunk? Is there anything out there that you hear from other people that you're like, Hold up a second.
Jessica Hill
It's a good one.
Rachel Harrington
I think I don't know if it's like a myth to debunk, but just understanding that kids need to move to learn, right? I think, I think a lot of people do know that, but I think there's still this idea that children should be able to sit and be quiet and keep their hands to themselves at all times, and it's like no these kids need to move. And you know, their brains work better through movement, so we need to figure out how to help them do that more, versus trying to force them into a little box.
Jessica Hill
Yeah, I don't know if mine's like a myth, but just like, just really, how important getting outside is? I just, I think that, you know, when I think back to my childhood, I was outside, you know, at the neighbor's house, playing, and we were just outside of climbing trees, and I just feel like risky play nowadays, like getting outside and climbing a tree. Parents are just like, Don't boil, be careful. Ah, you're climbing the log. You might nurture your mean, oh my gosh. You know, I just feel like we're just anxious as parents right now, whereas my parents were like, oh, kid. Laughter. Fine. You know, I don't know if there's a myth, but I just feel like we just need to give our kids the opportunity to learn to move and make mistakes, and most of the time they'll be okay.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, you know, I am seeing a trend of outdoor equipment starting to get back to being a little more risky. You know, for a while there, everything had to be like, just, here's a slide, here's a ladder, that's it. But now we're starting to get some of those merry go rounds in a different format back, right? Like, instead of sitting on or instead of standing on the merry go round, they have merry go rounds where you actually sit. So, you know, it's still the vestibular, but maybe it's a little bit more safe. And we're getting some of those rock climbing walls back. We're getting some of those zip lines in parks back. And so I think that's that is fantastic. And hopefully, I mean, it's obviously a shift in the right direction, but hopefully we continue to see, see that shift going.
Rachel Harrington
Are we getting swings back on the school playgrounds?
Jayson Davies
I don't know. You got to ask the insurance adjuster about that, from my understanding, like.
Rachel Harrington
I don't know. Man.
Jayson Davies
I agree. I agree. I mean, but again, even with that, even with swings, there are ways to make swings that are safe if you want to still give a student the vestibular motion of a swing. Well, then create a swing. Not well. I mean, OTs can get on board with whoever makes all the equipment, but create a swing that is safer. You know, I remember, gosh, they're mostly on, like, preschool playgrounds, but it was like a swing, but it was like a fire truck, and you're like, completely enclosed, right? So something like that. I'm sure you can get people out there who designed play equipment have to be creative people, so they got to come up with something I think.
Rachel Harrington
Somebody will share this episode with somebody who does that. They'll hear it.
Jessica Hill
I think there we go. I wonder about kids like their ocular motor skills when they're when they used to swing, and you were like, navigating the environment safely, I mean you'd like run in between. We work on all those underlying skills in OT but it's like timing and sequencing and safety awareness and the visual processing, like all of those skills that are imperative, those underlying skills that we need to develop. Are they getting developed in different ways now, or are they just not getting as developed because they aren't being as challenged with those, you know, dangerous, risky activities like locking in front of a swing.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, things that there's a reason that ot practitioners work in the schools. These are things that we can talk about with teachers, with administrators, with parents who sometimes take things beyond our control, even you know. So yeah, you know, there's a reason that we're there, and hopefully we can start to move this stuff in the right direction and incorporate more movement within the classroom. All right, I got two more questions before we we wrap things up. And the first is, how can school based ot practitioners continue to stay up to date with this knowledge, with this research on best practices for movement and learning, obviously they're already listening to this podcast. But what else?
Rachel Harrington
Just seek out those continuing ed courses that are geared towards the most recent research of, how does movement affect learning? How does nature affect learning? Getting outside, that kind of stuff. There's a lot out there.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, and you mentioned, like, a topic that could be a whole another episode. Hopefully it will be soon, and that's nature and learning, and, you know, being outside, and I know there's a lot of people doing a lot of good stuff with that, Laura Park, Figaro and others, that would be great to talk more about that and how we can take learning outside to make learning even better.
Jessica Hill
Well, we just we recently interviewed an OT her name's Danielle, and she's local here, and she talked about how when she was in the schools, she found ways to take the kids outside and run her school based ot sessions outside in any way that she could. And it was, I mean, it was very eye opening, you know, because you think about school OT or either in the classroom or you're in your little office, or maybe you're in the hallway or the gym, but like, can you take your kids outside to the playground when no one else is there because they're in class right now and run your ot session on the playground instead of in the school.
Jayson Davies
Absolutely. More info on that coming. Maybe in episode 145 I don't know. We'll see. But all right. Final question is, where can anyone interested in learning more about using movement to ready the brain for learning go to find more info, whether it be you know, specific cores, obviously you have your podcast. But where would you where's the best place for people to go to learn more about movement and learning?
Jessica Hill
I would send them to our website. Harkla.co we've got courses there. We have courses for the classroom from reflex courses. Send three diet courses, really everything that we're passionate about. And then we have a YouTube channel where we chat about the same things on YouTube, our podcast, our blog.
Jayson Davies
all the places.
Jessica Hill
All the places, we just try to make all this information as digestible as possible and fun. And just, yeah, I'll plug one more sensational brain provides some really great tools. And you know, it's a continuing education platform as well, so there's a lot of really great courses there.
Jayson Davies
Awesome. Well, thank you both so much for sharing. Thank you for coming on the otschoolhouse com podcast. I really appreciate it. And, yeah, definitely keep in touch about all things sensory.
Jessica Hill
Yeah, thanks for having us.
Rachel Harrington
Thanks, Jayson, see you later.
Jayson Davies
Bye. Bye. All right. I hope you enjoyed that episode with Rachel and Jessica. They are both really awesome and really insightful when it comes to all things sensory, as you might guess, with the name of their podcast, as well as primitive reflexes. And you know, I hope you really enjoyed this and saw that all three of us kind of let our guard down today. You know, I felt almost a little more silly today. But despite the silliness, I feel like we got into some deep conversations that ot practitioners don't always want to talk about, like a fidget versus a toy, and the difficulties behind some of the popular movement programs out there, and a lot of other things. So I hope you found this episode super helpful. I appreciate you being here and all the show notes for this episode you can find at otschoolhouse com slash episode 123, so check out the show notes for all the resources that we discussed today. And yeah, that's about it. Thank you again. So much for tuning in today, and I will see you next time.
Amazing Narrator
Thank you for listening to the otschoolhouse podcast, for more ways to help you and your students succeed right now, head on over to otschoolhouse com, until next time class is dismissed.
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