OTS 149: The Essentials of Contracting as a School-Based OTP
- Jayson Davies
- May 5, 2024
- 37 min read
Updated: Dec 18, 2024
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Welcome to the show notes for Episode 149 of the OT Schoolhouse Podcast.
Thinking about working directly with schools or going through a staffing agency? Jayson and Elise explore the pros and cons of direct contracting vs. staffing agencies and share insights to help you make informed decisions about your career path.
They discuss the nuances of being a 1099 subcontractor versus a W-2 employee, the non-therapy duties that often come with traditional employment, and the hard-to-navigate waters of rates, negotiation, and setting up clear, beneficial contracts. They will touch upon the importance of establishing boundaries to prevent burnout and maintain a fulfilling career.
Tune in to learn more!
Listen now to learn the following objectives:
Learners will identify the differences between contracting in a school and being a school employee
Learners will understand the process for self-contracting and going through a staffing agency
Learners will identify ways to find and negotiate a contract as a school-based therapist
Guest Bio
Elise Mitchell, M.S. CCC-SLP graduated from Missouri State University in 2013 and entered the world of school staffing by working for virtual staffing companies for six years as an SLP, school sales person, and provider manager.
Years later, Elise left the world of large staffing companies to focus on being an INTENTIONALLY small contractor, serving her state and setting her contract terms.
After falling in love with direct contracting, Elise founded The Therapist Support Network with the goal of making materials, support, and community available to all therapists who want to work with schools without working for them.
Quotes
“You can't be a contractor and suddenly, qualify a student outside of the parameters the state tells you to- you're still a school provider. You still have your governing body …and then, of course, IDEA.”
-Elise Mitchell, M.S. CCC-SLP
“ I called schools with a vacancy. I called a special education director, so don't call the HR department.”
-Elise Mitchell, M.S. CCC-SLP
“Don't sell to someone who has not consented to be sold to. We've all had those moments at car dealerships or walking across the mall or whatever where like someone just starts to sell to us and then it doesn't even matter. If they're selling me gold at for a cost of a penny, I'm not gonna listen to them because they, invaded my bubble and my boundaries.”
-Elise Mitchell, M.S. CCC-SLP
“Start hourly, and bill for all services, bill for evaluation write up, IEP write up, bill for everything….there are ways to get access to what schools have paid. That is public information.”
-Elise Mitchell, M.S. CCC-SLP
“If the district does have a salary schedule for the OTs, you can look at that. You've got to understand that that doesn't necessarily include health care costs. You’re going to have to take taxes out of that yourself…but I think that's another potential starting point to look at”
-Jayson Davies, M.A, OTR/L
Resources
👉Elise’s School Contractor trainings and templates (affiliate link)
Don’t forget to use promo code JAYSON to save on your purchase.
Episode Transcript
Expand to view the full episode transcript.
Jayson Davies
Welcome back school based OT practitioners for another insightful episode of the OT schoolhouse Podcast. Today we are exploring a slightly different side of school based OT, and that is the hiring and contracting side of it. OTPs PTS SLP is SLPA is everyone, even sometimes teachers have options when it comes to working in the schools. You can be a direct hire for a district or a school or maybe even a County Education Office, you can work for an agency that contracts with a district or as we'll discuss today, you can even contract yourself to a district rather than being a W two employee. There are pros and cons to each of these different dynamics. And that is why when I found Elise's website that therapy support network.com I knew I had to have her join the podcast to share her insights with you. Elise Mitchell is an SLP, who contracts herself as a practitioner with districts across the country. At the therapy support network, she now also helps others do the same OT practitioners included. So if you've ever thought about contracting yourself to work for a district, whether online or in person, this episode is for you. We also have a surprise at the very end of the episode for anyone who may want some support in making that happen. So sit back or you know, continue walking if that's what you're up to right now. And enjoy all the tips and tricks to landing your first contract when we return with the lease.
Amazing Narrator
Hello, and welcome to the OT schoolhouse podcast, your source for school based occupational therapy, tips, interviews and professional development. Now to get the conversation started. Here's your host, Jayson Davies, class is officially in session.
Jayson Davies
Elise welcome to the OT schoolhouse podcast How you doing today?
Elise Mitchell
I am doing well. I'm so excited to be here. If you follow me, you know that I just am obsessed with the field of OT for so many reasons. Like as a mom as a professional that's collaborated. I love OTs. So I'm so excited. Yeah.
Jayson Davies
And you know, as I was just mentioning in the intro, you are actually an SLP. And it's it's rare that we have someone who is not an OT on this podcast. But it is a pleasure to have you on. So thank you so much for being here. And with that, I would love for you to share just a little bit about where you are in your speech language pathology career right now.
Elise Mitchell
Yeah. So I'm Elise, and I've been an SLP for Odin think this one through 11 years, I believe, maybe 10 years. I have to do the math later. But I was in sniff for a little bit and then I decided that was not for me. And so I started working with a staffing agency. I was promoted really quickly I was in sales, provider management, contract execution, etc, left that world. And then I professionally meandered for a while I have dubbed that term. I love a good little professional meander where you try a few things that doesn't work that doesn't work. And long story short, this opportunity presented itself in front of me to contract with a rural school. And I was like, Huh, well, I know about contracting with schools, because that's what I've done. For my professional career. I've managed school contracts, okay. But I always had that staffing company between me, it sounds like haha, I mean, I can contract directly with you, I have the skills, I have the tools, I do not want to be the school's employee because I'm in Missouri and Missouri SLPs are paid that work for the schools are paid lower than I could possibly afford. But I was like, hey, I can set a really competitive rate and contract with the school. So that ended my professional meandering, and I became a direct school contractor. After doing that, I realized that I had all of this education and experience with school sales, with school contracting with school provider management, that I wanted to do something to contribute to our field. And so I founded the therapist support network, with the goal of making accessible and affordable materials resources for SLPs, OTs and PTs who are interested in contracting with schools directly with schools as well. So I am I am now I am a direct school contractor. I work with rural Missouri schools virtually, and
Jayson Davies
I love it. That is awesome. And I love the professional Mandarin term. I love that. I think we all go through that at some point.
Elise Mitchell
Yeah, it's like you're like, do I put all of these things that I did in a short amount of time on a resume? Or does that look bad? Thankfully, I don't do resumes anymore. I do my bio, but like, when you're, you know, they never get my resume. They don't know what I do.
Jayson Davies
You know, it's so interesting. It's so interesting reading resumes, especially in the OT world, because you have a lot of like, I'm sure it's similar in speech. You've got people putting their level twos on resumes, and it's just like so random because they're applying for a school district. They have like this level two and acute care facility or, or maybe it's even just a recent experience just because they're changing from acute care to the schools, and their most recent job is like an acute care rehab facility. And it's just as funny like in other parts of the world in business, you don't see that right. Like people typically aren't going from working with adults to working with pediatrics.
Elise Mitchell
Right? yeah, yeah, I feel that way about my resume sometimes. Or even my bio. I'm like, I'm taking people for a ride, come on this journey with me.
Jayson Davies
Right, but it's all led you to where you are today. So that's cool. Yeah. All right. Well, we are going to talk deep into about contract therapy and contracting yourself with a district. But to start a little bit more broad. Take a step back, you mentioned a little or several of these, when you're talking about, you know, your meandering, there's a few different ways that one can work for and or with a district, can you outline some of those?
Elise Mitchell
Yeah, so the first is, as a school employee, this is, you know, some of our states here at a teacher pay scale, some of them may or not, but it is your standard school employee role, you are a W two employee with a school district, just like their English teacher, their math, teacher, etc. So that's one way. The other way is working either a subcontractor or an employee, because there's both a subcontractor or an employee of a staffing company. So we've all heard, especially in the virtual and the teletherapy. World, so there's these larger staffing companies that then you can work for, and you have a buffer between you and the school, that isn't the school. So often with this, you do get a little bit more flexibility, etc, because you're not that salary school employee that has to come in and out at every time, you know, but you have a middle person between you and the district. The third way, is directly contracting with the school. So in this circumstance, you take out that large staffing agency or like in our areas, the hospitals will or like, outpatient clinics, we'll call it, we'll put SLPs in there, you remove that middle person, and you are the direct contractor with school. So you find a school that is struggling to recruit that first category, which is the in house therapists, and you step in as a business as a sole proprietor depending on your state. And you step in or provide their therapy services, but you are a 1099, you are a contractor business owner, or however you want to word it.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, and I mean, I've done two of those, I've never done the one that you're doing though, I actually started as a contracted therapist through a third party that was with at the time, they were called my therapy company, they're now were bought up I believe, by stepping stones group look, conglomerate that is just huge. And eating everyone up, right. And then I and then I moved into a district employee role. And for me, at least out here in California, it was higher pay better benefits. And so that's why I moved into that role. I always considered the idea of potentially contracting directly with a therapist, but I a was a little scared, because you know, you you're on your own at that point. And I didn't know how to get started. I wish I would have known you about 10 years ago. But the reason I share that is because I think there's some benefits for each type. And I would love just to kind of ask you, obviously you are in the camp, being in rural Missouri, contracting as yourself with a district makes the most sense for you. But for those who are looking at all three options, what are just a few benefits for each of the three?
Elise Mitchell
Yeah, yeah, I always tell people like the benefits. They allied with your journey, you know, I'm never gonna roll out that like, by the time my kids are out of the house and things like that, that I won't go work for a school and get that retirement, you know, so I love this question because I'm like, it just depends on where you're at with your journey. But the first one working as a school employee, I would say number one, I just mentioned it is the benefits. If I needed health care, I think that I would have a lot more financial obstacles that I do. So healthcare in particular can be a really challenging gig for business owners, it just especially small business owners, so school employee, you know, access to that affordable health care is is really great. In some states, their school employees are a bit more protected. Like in Missouri, we don't have a caseload cap. So I just don't have and we're on the teacher pay scale like I don't have a state that's like oh yeah, school, but some some schools you are or some states who are a little bit more protected, where we do have caseload caps, etc. So employee will I argue, I'm gonna say that employee is the most stable.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, I agree.
Elise Mitchell
In regards. Yeah, salary schedule, you're an employee. It's significantly harder to fire an employee. Then just say, You know what, we're gonna let this call have tried to go, this isn't working out. So I do I do think that employees probably the most stable if you're someone that's like, I want to know, every month, what I'm gonna get paid employee is your is your jam. Yeah. So the next one is the staffing agency. I like this for someone who may be like me, that is like, I need some flexibility, because that's where I was at too is, you know, I need Tuesdays to take my kids to whatever appointments apparently we have appointments every week, it's our thing. You know, so I need my Tuesdays off, that's really difficult to find with a school employee role. You know. And so with a staffing agency, you get that a little bit more flexibility. And you don't have to worry about the sales process, which can be daunting for people I, I argue it's not as hard as we make it. But I'm biased. But you don't have to go through that sales and contracting process. And then let's talk about the con is you in return, give a portion of your pay to a staffing agency, and you hit the nail on the head, many of them, especially the ones that are larger, pay less than working for his school. And it's hourly, often. And so, you know, that can be tough, but they're great. If you want to get started with contracting with schools, or you're new to serving schools, that can be a great way to kind of dip your toe in as like, I'm not a school employee, but you're not, you know, jumping in.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, I often really quickly, I often get asked like, how do I get into the schools, and I've met people that have literally applied to 5, 6, 7, even more districts, and they can not get a job with a district, primarily because they all want three or five years of experience working in a school district. And my first word of advice to them usually is to look at the contracting agencies because they are always looking for people always. And they don't. To be fair, like it doesn't seem like the big ones, especially at least, they're not interested in how many years of experience you have. They're looking for the person that they can pay the least amount and get the most work out of if you want to add anything.
Elise Mitchell
Yeah, no, hit the nail on the head. There are some states where it's significantly harder to be an employee with schools. And in California is definitely one of those, New Jersey, New York, you have to like really show, Missouri is like, do you have, I mean, I was approached at a farm show, because I had on a speech therapist. It's the most Missouri story you've ever heard.
Jayson Davies
Like, you're not talking about pharmacy, right? You're talking like farmers and cows, right?
Elise Mitchell
Yeah. Yeah. Farm Show is like a huge like convention where there's all of these. It's like Asha, or do you guys have like an OTA? Yeah, a huge conference. But the vendors are all like they sell tractors or like if you want to buy a certain gene of cow like genetics. So I was at a farm show because we have a farm and a speech therapist shirt. And this like rural special education director came up to me it was like, Are you a speech therapist? I'm like, Well, yeah, but you don't know that I'm a good one.
Jayson Davies
They don't care.
Elise Mitchell
Yeah, no, not at all. So it's funny, because some states are like, Whatever do you have? Do you have the degree?
Jayson Davies
Yeah.
Elise Mitchell
like, we're desperate. But yeah, so, yes, staffing companies can be a really good entry to working with schools and there are some really cool ones that are like founded and run by therapists now that are paying, like some of the staffing companies are paying more than my direct rate in my state, like, you know, and so it's, I love that trend, but you are still getting part of the profit away, which may be worth it for you if you need that support. The last thing is direct contracting with schools. This is the out of the three this is the one that gives you the most autonomy if you set up your contract correctly. So this is where you say this is my caseload number like for me if you follow me you know that Tuesdays I'm off Tuesdays and Fridays are my no contract no coaching days when I'm being good, but you know you have that ability to set your terms so you have the most autonomy and then you should make that should be the highest earning I give a disclaimer of gross earning because there is that sticker shock that first time you pay your taxes so you know you want to ensure that you've priced yourself well and competitively to make it financially the benefit that it can't be but yeah, this is great for someone. and if you also have like that private practice edge, but you want the school schedule, because that's another thing. I love the school schedule. This is a really great way to be a private practice business owner but still not you know, you know, still have your No, no off.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, yeah, I completely agree. Like my family runs on the school district calendar, my wife is in the schools, I with OT school house basically run on the schools for the most degree. And you can't beat that like it is just nice having summers off. And two weeks in the winter, you can't beat that. So I want to ask you one more thing, because you mentioned working with a contracting company that sometimes I can look two different ways as an employee versus even actually contracting with the contractor, if we want to call it that, can you just really quickly share the differences between those two?
Elise Mitchell
Yeah, and it's important that we talk about this. So some companies bring on a 1099 subcontractor, you still in that sense, are treated as a quote unquote, business owner in the eyes of the IRS, which means you still have to pay your own taxes, you have to do everything that you would do as a direct contractor with a school except you didn't find that contract, right, you got rid of the sales and contract process. If that company is compliant, that's a whole other podcast. That's a whole other day. If that company is compliant, you still should have autonomy in that, like, I'm only working this day this day this day, as a subcontractor, and a lot of the staffing agencies do bring on providers as subcontractors, not as much in California, but in our other in our other states. The other one is w two. And in this case, you are an employee of the company, they pay your taxes, some of them provide health care, which is awesome. Some of them provide retirement. So most of them your hourly, still, but you are an employee, and still get that like I don't have to pay my taxes quarterly. You know, those those employee perks, and that one you should have, you may have less autonomy, you may have more managerial support. So that's nice. I love w two with a staffing company. If you are new to schools, I'd find one where your W two because they should equip you with a manager in support and training and those things that come from being an employee. But yeah, it's important for us to know the difference, because it's just so important to know what you're signing.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And now, before we get more into the idea of contracting directly with a district or school, is there any difference in the day to day, like we've we talked a little bit about, you know, the overarching benefits, you know, being on the school calendar, benefits and whatnot, but, you know, working directly with the kids, is there a difference between being an employee versus being contracted?
Elise Mitchell
Yes. So I think the biggest difference is, when you are an employee, they typically want you to do all the things employees do, which usually includes bus duty lunch duty, what are the other good ones like random and services about like, I don't know, math curriculum. I've had I've gotten weird face. Yeah, because you're an employee. And so they're going to build those things in because they want to really, I mean, you are on the UI on their salary, like they need to maximize the time you're being used. When you are a contractor, they do not want to pay you any more than they have to pay you. So you usually 99% of the time, you don't have that bus duty, you don't have that lunch duty, any unrelated task is removed from your plate, that does not mean that paperwork is removed from your plate, you absolutely should be paid for paperwork. Because that's I mean, you can't be a provider without paperwork. But the biggest thing with day to day is just again, those unrelated tasks. Also, when you're a contractor, like I don't start my day at 8am unless I have a student at 8am. Sundays, you know, like my, my Thursday starts at 915. So you just see more, you have that difference in like, I don't clock in and clock out. I see my students when they're on my schedule.
Jayson Davies
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, obviously, there's some differences. But what would you say are also some of the similarities, whether you're an employee or a contractor?
Elise Mitchell
that compliance piece, the state doesn't care if you're an employee or a contractor, you know, you, you still have to follow compliance. So this is something that I tell people, you can't be a contractor and suddenly, like, qualify a student outside of the parameters, the state tells you to quit, like you're still a school provider. So you still have your governing body have that that state, the state governing body, and then of course, IDA, so the similar the similarities, you're still a school provider, you still have to provide progress notes, unless for some reason you're just doing therapy and they have a different provider doing those notes. You know, you still see the students for like, a set number of times. You are it's it's still very similar.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, still got to do your notes.
Elise Mitchell
Yeah, you still have compliance. You still have to I mean, you have to evaluate the kids every year like, you know, that part, that part doesn't change, which I'm glad you brought that up. Because sometimes particularly with like in Missouri, OT and sensory, Missouri doesn't love like standalone sensory with OT, asked me how I know my youngest is a little sensory baby. And they were like, we can't touch this. Like, they don't like that stay at a load. And so even if you're a contract OT, you're not going to suddenly can't, you know, qualify them with that, like you still have those parameters. And sometimes people get bummed with that. And if you're bumped by that go into private practice, like, there's a space for you.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, yeah. Quick question. As a contracted therapist, do you ever feel like you're not part of the crew? I mean, do you feel like you are on your own island. And I'm sure you have multiple stories that you can share from many angles. But what are your thoughts,
Elise Mitchell
I do more when I'm virtual than when I'm in person, when I'm in person, I don't feel that much. I mean, you do have to put yourself out there. And I really encourage people like when you are onboarding, get to know the teachers, like walk around, introduce yourself, if you're on site, launch there, if the school is comfortable with it, which the majority of them forget, you're a contractor, and you have to actually re remind them that you're a contractor. And so in person, I found it's not as challenging as virtual and honestly virtual. As with a staffing agency, I felt that same way as like I'm, I'm the person on the computer. And so I felt I have to work just a little bit harder, you know, emailing to get to know the team, ensure that you email the general education, teacher get their feedback, just put yourself out there a little bit more. But I do I do feel that like, there's a little bit of that lack of like, water, what do they call it water cooler talk?
Jayson Davies
To the staff lounge talk? Yeah,
Elise Mitchell
yeah, yeah, there you go. Yeah,
Jayson Davies
Yeah, I mean, it's funny, because you know that some of the things you said, I think apply to both whether you're a working as your own contractor, therapist with the district, or if you're a contractor through a company, or if you're even an employee, a lot of times, we're the only OT or SLP on campus, like we're the only OT or SLP, the staff there knows. And if we don't take that initiative to get to know them, they're not going to take the initiative to get to know us. So I kind of think it goes with kind of with the territory, it just being a related service provider in some degree. So the one thing that I noticed as being a contracted therapist with a third party company was that it was harder for me to do things outside of IEP mandated minutes. If I wanted to conduct an in service, or if I wanted to get into the classroom to do some MTSS or something like that. That was a little bit more cumbersome. But I think that was the primary difference for me as far as being an employee. They were kind of more Yeah, go ahead, do it and try it out. I mean, you've got your 40 hours a week, use it, basically. So yeah, that was just my experience.
Elise Mitchell
That makes sense. That makes sense. Yeah.
Jayson Davies
All right. Now let's dive into the idea of actually potentially looking for a district and potentially contracting yourself out, I'm going to kind of walk through the rest of this podcast with the assumption that someone already has some experience in the schools because I think it's very hard to jump into the schools first year as an independent contractor. But I do want to ask you, you know, if you are a school based OT a school based SLP, PT, whatever it might be, what might you look for to determine if a district might be willing to partner or even looking for an OT to partner with as an independent contractor?
Elise Mitchell
Yeah, yeah. So first, I'll mentioned like the lowest hanging fruit like the easiest to grab, and then I'll talk through like, yeah, if you don't have that beautiful sparkling fruit just taking right. So the first which is the lowest hanging fruit, and still the number one way that anyone that I've worked with, has has obtained their contracts, not myself, I'm a I've a cold caller to life. And I'll explain that more here in a minute. But um, has been a word of mouth situation, you put yourself out there, which is funny because sometimes people are nervous to like, tell the world and I get it like if you're not, if you haven't given your notice yet, Let's bypass this step and not disclose to your boss that you're looking for another gig. But the one of the best ways if you have if you have access to like your grad school cohort, or something is just sharing saying, Hey, I did want to let you guys know I am serving. I would like that, you know, I'm serving contracts for the 2425 school year. Do you guys know any schools that are really struggling to recruit OT? Why I like that and why it's the lowest hanging fruit is because schools in particular Like having people who know people, like I mean, I'm sure if we're all school, we're all familiar with schools, there's politics, there's cliques, there's, you know, it's schools.
Jayson Davies
Yeah. And to be honest, that's one of the benefits I think of contracting yourself with the district is you don't have to deal with all that necessarily.
Elise Mitchell
I know, I know. Um, but yeah, so you, there's schools really like knowing someone who knows someone the same as, like, if you put something on your social media, you never know. And I had, I actually spoke to someone, just yesterday that she went to her son's IEP meeting. And the person in the IEP meeting was like, while you're here, the school next door is looking for an SLP. And so she's like, our contract with them. Yeah, so the more that you put yourself out there, wear the shirt to the farm show, you know, let if you're an OT with SLP friends, I know, I always know schools in Missouri that are struggling to recruit OTs, like, you know, put yourself out there. So that's, that's the easiest, but let's say you're an introvert, or you know, they're the OT, you're rural, the OT pool is pretty small in your area, like not a lot of educator friends, what you do is you look for schools that have a vacancy, you can find us on the job boards, you know, and that doesn't mean they're willing to contract. But that lets you know, they're still hiring, and they're likely struggling to hire. So that's going to be the next way. And that's actually my number one way of getting sales before I got to the point where schools just referred. I mean, schools now will just refer other schools to me. So I don't call anymore. That that was the number one way that I identified schools with a need is I called I called schools with a vacancy a call the special education director. So don't not the HR department Say that again? Yes, you call the special education director don't call HR. They don't they handle employees, not the contractors. And they get very confused and put you through the application process, no matter how many times you say.
Jayson Davies
I'm glad you shared that because I was totally in my head thinking, call HR call HR? No.
Elise Mitchell
I've actually had people that apply and that they're like, wait, I'm interviewing and I was like, on board a board. But I'm like, Just tell them there was a confusion like we could, you can, you can cut back for that. But for the most part, you want to talk to the special education director or equivalent, if whatever your state calls them, and say, you know, Hey, I am I am a business owner. If you have a business name, go ahead and throw it out there. And I'm an OT, and I am accepting contracts. So 2425 school year, I saw you all had a vacancy listed. Are you guys struggling to recruit? If so I, you know, I'd love to help you out?
Jayson Davies
Yeah, that's awesome. You know, I kind of want to just use this as a storytime and see where we go with it. Because the last week or so, I have received several emails from a large staffing agency. In fact, I think from multiple large staffing agencies telling me that they have a vacancy for my local school district. Yeah, my local school district, if you're listening all the OTs in the local school district, I don't believe I am applying. But anyways, let's just assume that someone is getting that type of email. Is that kind of the situation you're talking about right here like, Hey, I know this district has an opening, I can either a go the route of contacting the recruiter that's emailing me or I can sidestep it and do what you're talking about.
Elise Mitchell
Yeah, yeah. Find a school I would not and I do recruiters in big staffing agencies, which I respect, they're, they're cracking down at this. I would not engage with a staffing company, if you have an intention of direct contracting. That's another misconception that I've heard like people think they get the staffing company can connect them and then they can just give the staffing company that mood. Most staffing companies have policies in place that protects them if you do that. So I would not go that route. Instead, I would say, Yeah, I see the school district, I'm going to not work with a staffing agency. I'm going to track down this school that they're talking about and call them.
Jayson Davies
Gotcha. And that is the special education director, not the HR person.
Elise Mitchell
Absolutely. Yes, yes. You get anything. That's your bullet point. That's the thing to write down if you get anything from this from this episode.
Jayson Davies
Awesome. Awesome. Yeah, no, I think that's kind of what we really wanted to gather from this episode. Most. It's just kind of that how to get started. And as you mentioned, right, like that can be the first step, you know, searching for what districts are looking for someone and then potentially going around or finding a way to that special education director. I do want to ask you, though, like, what should I be worried about? If I'm going to give, especially if I've never done this before, and I'm going to call up that special education director. I'm going to tell him my business name, Tom. I'm open for potential hiring. I mean, I'm going to be nervous. It's the first time I'm doing it. What should I be worried about?
Elise Mitchell
Usually that part doesn't come with as many because what, what I always recommend doing is saying like, so here's a caveat, and I won't get too much into it. But if you ever go through any sales training with me, I am such an advocate for don't sell to someone who has not consented to be sold to. And we've all had those moments at car dealerships are walking across the mall or whatever, like someone just starts to sell to us. And then it doesn't even matter if they're selling me gold at for cost of a penny, I'm not going to listen to them because they like invaded my bubble and my boundaries. So in that call, usually, your call to action is like wins the chance to meet and discuss this more if they're open to it. So that calls shouldn't come with too many things every now and then you're gonna get which is what I say, which is that follow up call, the thing I would be just cautious about is know your rate ahead of time and know like, plug it in, calculate it, estimate taxes. Because if you say your rate really quickly, and the school like 50% of the time is going to pretend to choke and like, you know, they like to their schools, they like to see if they can get you down, you just have to be really confident in your rate, do not charge what the staffing company was going to pay you because they have taken out their portion. So I would say that's like my number one is just know your rate and be confident in your rate. And know to walk away if the school is like, well, we don't pay over. Like if you're in Florida, this is a this is Florida staying, you know, we don't pay over $60 an hour, if you can't live off that when you take taxes out, then I wouldn't I wouldn't continue that conversation. So I would say that's my number one is like, you know what you're going to charge to be competent, saying that number.
Jayson Davies
Gotcha. Absolutely. And we don't have to go too deep into this. I'm sure it can. It gets very intricate, I'm sure. But when it comes to potentially pricing yourself, what are just one or two tips you have, like Where should people even start with deciding that amount?
Elise Mitchell
Yeah, so I recommend beginners start with an hourly amount, you will see flat rate out there like I charge this much per hour. But if you don't really know how much how long it takes you to write a balance you can get in sticky situations where you're actually doing it for like $20 an hour. So I'm gonna say start hourly, and Bill for all services bill for evaluation write up, IEP write up? Well, for everything, you can look. So there are ways to get access to what schools have paid, that is public information. You just have to do some digging. So it's been there's board minute notes that contain it. There are ways to do like request to get that information. I personally don't use that anymore, because staffing agencies in particular charge a lot less than I do. But they also tend to have staffing issues. So schools will pay more than what they've paid. But you can get a ballpark that way like am I coming in? Am I coming in hot? So those are some tips that I do. And then just remember that most schools are 36 weeks out of the year. So when you're calculating, getting that salary, and you're looking at like, okay, my hourly rate times, I'm going to do 30 hours a week, times 36 weeks a year, that's going to be my grow salary.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, and I think the only other thing that I would add to it is, if the district does have a salary schedule for the OTs, you know, you can look at that, of course, you've got to understand that that doesn't necessarily include health care costs, that doesn't, you're gonna have to take taxes out of that yourself and all that good stuff. But I think that's another potential starting point to look at. But yeah, all the interesting stuff. Alright, so once you figure out, you know, you've got this number that you want to do and you present that to the special education director. What are some other things that will need to be sorted out?
Elise Mitchell
Yeah, so that's when you kind of get in that contract phase. Some states like California, New Jersey, they like to present their contract I don't love it. I talk about this in a few different areas if you follow me on what to do with that, but it's funny California is like my exception for everything I talk, you notice that? like.
Jayson Davies
You have lots of rules out here. I'm sorry.
Elise Mitchell
Like unless you're in California. Florida, California, New Jersey, I talk about those states way too much.
Jayson Davies
And you're in Missouri of all places like, you have nothing to do with them.
I know, I know, Texas is coveted clutch Texas is flirting with something. But yeah, so I you engage in the contract process. The contract process is really where you outline those terms. That's going to be your Goldstein. dirt that guides you through this, putting in there, what you're going to build for. So with the schools like, Whoa, I did not realize we were going to pay for you to write up this evaluation, you can say, share it. And you guys signed this contract that it said, you know, so after that begins the contracting process, that's when you really need to hone in on. Are you an LLC or an S corp? Are you a PLLC? Depending on your state, that's when liability insurance will come up. Some that's in the contract like provider will maintain this liability insurance. That's what those other things which are your nuts and bolts, and I will say the number one thing. Number one, I don't say mistake, but like, misstep that I see with contractors, is they try to get those nuts and bolts before they call. But often you get a liability insurance, and then you go to contract with the school and find out they want you to have cyber and security as well. So this the nuts and bolts stage really happens after you have identified a district that most likely is going to use you.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I help some people start their own business, I kind of tell him the same thing, right. Like, there's some things that you want to have done up front, like you were talking about know your number. But there's some things that you just, you kind of know that they need to be done. But you can't necessarily do it until you've gotten through a few steps. And at that point, you kind of worry about it. So yeah, absolutely. With something such as I'm going to or not going to attend IEPs, caseload numbers, workload numbers is that stuff that might be included?
Elise Mitchell
It can be, yeah, I think can, so, an example with me, I was with a high school and I put a caseload number in my contract, I did not realize this high school, most of the students were 15 minutes, because they were in the process of, you know, transitioning out of my services. So I ended up severely under estimating the contract because my caseload read as 65. But my hours were much lower because of 6515 minutes, you know, basically. So put things in there that you don't want to deviate from, if you're like, I don't want to deviate from, you know, 30 hours a week that goes in the contract. If it's, you know, so those things that you're like, Yeah, my caseload is not tapping 40 To put it in there. But just know, once it's in there, that if you do deviate from it, you will need to do like an addendum or an attachment or something to that extent. Yeah.
Jayson Davies
Yeah. You know, I'm just, this entire time we've been talking, I've noticed that you've talked a lot about boundaries and setting boundaries for yourself. And I just want to ask, where did that come from? And do you feel like that's important for everyone? Or Should someone kind of feel that out for themselves?
Elise Mitchell
Yeah, so I think for me, in my past life, when I was an executive, for a staffing company, I did not have boundaries. I talk a lot about that. Like, I mean, I was grind culture, which served to me at that time, you know, I did very well, I learned what I what I now know. But because of that I did get really burnt out. And so when I started contracting, I was like, listen, like, I'm not, I'm not going through this journey again. So in order for me to not go through this journey, I got to not start it. So that's where a, you know, and you have to go through that you have to decide like, what do I need, because most of people when they come to me, they're struggling with where they're at currently. Gotta identify what it is, is it the hours a week is that the mental load isn't the fact that you just aren't making enough like you don't mind the job, but your page peanuts, identify what it is that you are now trying to leave. And that is going to drive those boundaries you put in place as a business owner, because if it does it, you're gonna end up in the same boat, like, contracting is only a fix if you use it to fix whatever you're leaving.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's, it's, no one job is going to fix your burnout problem. There's a lot more to it than that. And you really got to look internally and decide, okay, well, what isn't it because even if you're employed, I mean, you could make changes to the way that you are working in your employed gig, to combat that burnout a little bit. But if you just keep the same mentality, but jump into a new job, may not may not quite change.
Elise Mitchell
Yeah, yeah.
Jayson Davies
All right. I've got a question here for you. And this actually comes from it's a scenario that someone gave me and it's something that I've heard several times regarding contracted therapist. I don't think I've heard it much as far as like contracting with the district but more of like a third party thing. And it's that the districts are worried that the therapist will over evaluate over service students because they're getting paid per hour per service, whatever it might be. In fact, it went so far as someone that who's in our OT school house Collaborative membership, Christina, she was saying that she's evaluating, but she is not allowed to also be the treating therapist unless the parent requests her. Because of that reason, they don't want her to evaluate and treat because they think that that's a conflict of interest as a contracted therapist. Have you experienced that? Do you hear of others experiencing something or pushback from a district and that way?
Elise Mitchell
Not to that level, um, my-I have had first I call it first invoice sticker shock, because that happened. I think it happens probably 30% of my customers when they get that first invoice, and they haven't done the math, and they're like, Whoa, this is more than a salary. And like, yeah, it is. I pay my own taxes. This. So I've experienced more of that. And I have had schools that take like meetings off my plates. And I've I've had to push back. I've had to say, in my State slippers are not allowed to represent speech in meetings. I ethically have to be there, because I'm the case manager. So I have had those circumstances where they try to shave what I bill that I think I've experienced significantly more than like, you you have a conflict. And also I mean, I'm sorry, Christina has to go through that. Because it's one of those things. It's like, we don't trust your code of ethics, or obligation. Yeah. So I have I do reference my code of ethics, I would say at least annually, I've had to have a school that I'm like, This is my ethical boundary. One thing that I've also experienced that isn't quite related, but is I do tend to get schools that look for me for the students who are likely to go to due process, because they want to buffer themselves a little bit and like they're like contractor figure this out. So that's another thing is I do have to have my ethics close by, you know, and-
Jayson Davies
I feel like out here, it's almost been the opposite with me, sorry to interrupt, but I feel like they want the district employee because they're scared that the contractor might do something. And I think that that distrust and whatnot. But you see, you've seen it the opposite.
Elise Mitchell
Yeah, yeah. Well, in New Jersey is very similar to California, where they're, they're just more litigious parents utilize due process more. And so New Jersey, similar, where they like to have a little bit more of that protection stance as employees. So yeah, this is what is really cool about contracting. And this is why I hope I'm not gonna get dementia, because I am using different like brain cells every day. But I do, like every state is so profoundly different. But I have, I am at a place now as a contractor where like that I had one school in particular, it's like, you're going to see this kid because the parents want you to see this kid. And I'm like, there's no possible ethical reason I can serve a student and pull them out of their, their educational environment, like their, you know, their, their normative data does not support that. But I am at a place as a contractor where I know that I can let those contracts go. And there will be another contract that needs me. But it took several years to get that. So I think if you're in a situation where with as a contractor, you're like, oh me, I This is worse than being a school employee. I have like nobody trusts me if it there's that's likely not an ideal customer. And there are others out there.
Jayson Davies
Point. Fantastic. Thank you. All right. I've got two more questions for you as we wrap this up. And the first is a best case. Worst case scenario. So if you know you're just getting your first contract out there, what might be the worst case? What might be the best case?
Elise Mitchell
Yeah, so we'll start with worst case. The worst case is it lapses, I haven't had this happen, especially being virtual where an on site person comes. And they they terminate contract. I did for the first two years of contracting, I actually kept security blanket jobs. I was PRN with so many large staffing agencies. And I probably burnt bridges because they never actually did work for them. But I had that security because I was worried about that. So but then I've like I said I've learned to trust the system. There are just so many schools right now. But that's worst case. Worst case is the contract drops. It's a contract. Hopefully you have protective terms in your contract where they do have to give like a certain amount of notice but if you went to court would that hold up? You know so that's that's worst case. I've only had it happen to a few contracts and like I said it wouldn't have happened if I was in person. It's just because I'm virtual and still so many schools see that as and I get it I if I lose a contract for that reason. I'm like, Hey, you totally get it glad your needs are met. So that's worst case. Best case is you know, you have you have the job you've wanted, you've set your boundaries, you are getting paid more your business owner and there's just such a beauty that comes from that and that autonomy piece which I leaned heavily into, and you serve a school that either has been using staffing companies that hasn't met their needs. Or you serve a school that, you know, maybe they have caseload overflow their OT in house just can't take it all, and you're helping them out. So that is more my experience is just that really positive, like I helped like one of my schools had for SLPs last year, because the staffing company just really struggled to retain their SLPs. And so they were behind was it 120 sessions. It was, you know, and so I stepped in and I helped and it was beautiful and harmonious. And I made good money in return in addition, so, so yeah, that's best case.
Jayson Davies
Awesome. And just really quickly, remind me, are you now actually bringing on your own employees and or subcontractors?
Elise Mitchell
Yes, I subcontract out. It's a lot in Missouri. I will say I was in management and in my past roles, it's not quite for me. I love talking about it. I love interviews, training, recruitment, but I myself, again, I lean into autonomy. And with management, you still you have people who need you when they need you. So but yes, I do subcontract. And because, Missouri, just in particular has.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, and I mean, it's a very different role, right, like you brought up the management side of things. Most OTs most SOPs, most PTS, I imagine go into our profession, because they want to be down on the floor with the kids on the swings at the desk in the classroom, not because of that management piece. But it is definitely a piece that can happen. Once you've got one great contract, once you've got two or three great contracts and your time is being pooled, there's different ways to go about it. I mean, if you want to keep doing the the therapy part, maybe you bring on someone to help with a managerial role. Or if you want to do the managerial role, then you step back from the treatment role and start to do take on the managerial role. But that's what's nice about owning a business. Like you get to make those decisions.
Elise Mitchell
Yeah, and I love apps. That's my favorite. Like, if I work with the school one year, I come back to them that next year, and I'm like, do you guys want me to serve all your SLP? OT, PT, social work? Like, do you guys want me to take this all in? And then you and your team? Are there together? And yes, you are their manager. But I mean, you guys are your your little business family. So it's really cool. And it is, I would say, I don't completely call it a passive form of income. I don't think anything in our field is a passive form of it. Like, don't believe the hype. There's not I don't think anything's passive anymore. But yeah, but I do is more passive. Like when I was on vacation, not all of my schools were closed. So I still had income coming in towards the business where I wasn't actually serving the students.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, I think that is totally I mean, even with me, though, to school house, completely virtual platform, all professional development resources for school based OT practitioners. It's not passive. I've put in more work here than I ever did while working at the school districts. And yeah, and same thing with money. Like a lot of people assume that it can be much more financially benefit. And I think in most cases, small businesses, yeah, it can be a little bit more, but you know, it's not going to be a quick million dollars. Like, that's just not the case. We're talking about here. Anytime we're working with education. We're kind of in that same field. So
Elise Mitchell
Yeah, yes, absolutely.
Jayson Davies
Alright, Elise, well, part of the reason I wanted to have you on today is because I knew you're so knowledgeable and the reason you are so knowledgeable about this is because you've done it you've put this together you have developed your own contracts you have cold called as you mentioned, you've looked at the ethics all that good stuff and I know that you know your stuff and I wanted to share that with everyone that's out there listening. Now for anyone out there who obviously hears how much you know how much you have been able to support yourself and others where can they learn more about you? Where's that best spot to go?
Elise Mitchell
Yeah, so if you go to my website that therapists support network.com I have a free checklist you can download just to get started and then find me on Instagram at the therapist support network I go live a good amount and then if you are on Facebook SLP OT and PT school contractors there is an Oxford comma in there and we that is a really great place I go like I actually am going live there here soon I go live and just try to free knowledge share to the best of my ability so yeah, you can you can find me in those places.
Jayson Davies
Awesome. And you do have a course right? or?
Elise Mitchell
I do I actually have two I have two separate so one is for beginning contractors the school contractor packet if you just are like just give me the contracts the lease I got this I'm gonna run. Give me the sale. script so I have a school contractor packet if school contractor packet and training those are for people who want to get started with contracting, if you have a private practice want to expand to schools, but I also have my newest baby that was born in January is the school staffing packet and training. And that is for providers that wants to hire or subcontracted out school contracts. So you talk about I don't love it, but it's I love teaching about it. So if you want to hire or bring on 1099 therapists underneath you to serve your school, if your school has, has too many needs for you to serve yourself, I trade on that.
Jayson Davies
Awesome.
Elise Mitchell
Yeah.
Jayson Davies
thank you so much, really appreciate having you on and we will be sure to link to all those various places. I know I found you through the Facebook page that popped up on my feed one day, I was like, Oh my gosh, I want to learn more. And so now I'm completely wrapped up in your atmosphere. So I appreciate it. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing all your knowledge and contracting directly with school districts. I am sure there will be a handful of therapists who will have you to think as part of their job in a year or two. So thank you appreciate it.
Elise Mitchell
Absolutely, Absolutely. Thank you for having me.
Jayson Davies
Thank you Elise. One more time for sharing all of that knowledge around contracting yourself in the schools. And as I mentioned at the top of the show, Elise and I have a special surprise for you today. After Elise and I finished recording she graciously reached out to me and shared that she would love to extend a discount code to you as an OT schoolhouse listener. So if you head over to the therapists support network.com The link is in the show notes. And you use code Jayson J A Y S O N, you will save on any of her courses or templates that make contracting yourself with a district possible. Thank you again so much for tuning in today. And if you decide to take the leap into self contracting after listening to this episode, please let me know reach out at Jayson@OTSchoolHouse.com. I would love to hear how you're doing and maybe what is going on with your business as an OT preneur. Thanks again and I will catch you next time on the OT schoolhouse podcast. Bye.
Amazing Narrator
Thank you for listening to the OT schoolhouse podcast. For more ways to help you and your students succeed right now. Head on over to OT school house.com Until next time, class is dismissed.
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