OTS 157: Shaping Education Policy Through Advocacy as a School-Based OT
- Jayson Davies
- Sep 3, 2024
- 42 min read
Updated: Dec 18, 2024
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Welcome to the show notes for Episode 157 of the OT Schoolhouse Podcast.
In this episode, the roles are switched as host Jayson Davies takes the guest seat, being interviewed by Abe Saffer, a federal lobbyist for the American Occupational Therapy Association.
Together, they discuss the power of advocacy in the OT profession. Learn about Jayson’s journey and the important role that AOTA plays in shaping education policy. Tune in to be inspired and find ways to take action!
Listen now to learn the following objectives:
Learners will identify the key roles that advocacy plays at different levels within the occupational therapy profession.
Learners will understand the importance of engaging with AOTA and state organizations in ensuring that OT practitioners have a voice in legislative decisions.
Guests Bios
In 2017, Jayson founded the OT Schoolhouse website and now supports school-based OT practitioners via courses, conferences, and the OTS Collaborative community.
With experience as both a contracted therapist and an "in-house" employee for two distinctly different districts, Jayson has had the opportunity to appreciate the differences between both small-rural and large-suburban districts.
For over five years, he has been helping therapists implement proactive tiered interventions, support IEP teams with goals and services, and feel more satisfied with the job they are doing as school-based OT practitioners.
Quotes
“The first word in IEP is individualized. Right? And we, as the OT practitioner, whether we have 1 year experience or 20 years of experience, we have the ability to customize our services to the way that we best see fit.”
-Jayson Davies, M.A, OTR/L
“You learn from those informal conversations, and you learn by asking questions and receiving answers.”
-Jayson Davies, M.A, OTR/L
“Your OT degree, your OT certification, your OT license is what helps you to get a job, but it is the continuing education that you take that truly makes you the occupational therapist or the occupational therapy assistant that you will become.”
-Jayson Davies, M.A, OTR/L
“Dr. Martin Luther King Jr says that the moral arc of the universe bends towards justice. And I think we sort of understand that.”
-Abe Saffer
“AOTA is there to protect and expand the profession. And then beyond that, it's to just find opportunities where we can have the biggest impact.”
-Abe Saffer
Resources
👉OTAC
Episode Transcript
Expand to view the full episode transcript.
Abe Saffer
Hello and welcome back to OT school house, where we explore all things school based occupational therapy. This is episode 157 and I hope you had a great Labor Day. I'm your host. Abe Safdar, one of the federal lobbyists for the American Occupational Therapy Association. I'm thrilled to have a very special guest with me today. Jason Davies was nice enough to let me take over this episode so I could have the opportunity to ask him all the important questions I've been dying to ask, though this is his podcast, I don't want to give him special treatment by failing to provide him a proper introduction. Jayson is a school based occupational therapist located in Southern California with over 10 years of experience in the field, you likely know him far better for his role as your normal host for this podcast. He's the founder and driving force behind otschoolhouse, and it's back to school conference, all of which have become invaluable resources for OTs and OTs working in the education setting. In our conversation today, Jason and I will discuss his journey into occupational therapy, the unique challenges and rewards of working in the schools, and the importance of advocacy for the OT profession. We'll also explore the role of professional associations like aota, and how OTs and OTs can get involved in shaping education policy. Let's Cue the intro music and dive into the conversation Jason and I had about his experiences and insights as a school based OT and entrepreneur in the field.
Amazing Narrator
Hello and welcome to the otschoolhouse com podcast. Your source for school based occupational therapy tips, interviews and professional development.
Abe Saffer
Welcome Jayson to your own podcast. Your first time as a guest. I'm very excited. I will say as a two time guest of otschoolhouse podcast, that you're in for a treat. So welcome. How are you doing?
Jayson Davies
Thank you. Abe. I am doing very well. And you know what this is, I am now a two time guest on my own podcast. You are not the first person to interview me. I know, I know you were looking forward to that. I'm sorry.
Abe Saffer
I really was.
Jayson Davies
But it will be fun. Nonetheless, I think it was episode 100 I think it was a special 100th episode. I had someone interview me, but it was not the wonderful Abe Saffer to interview me. So I'm excited for this. Let's go.
Abe Saffer
I'm going to hold on to that you only do this on special occasions, so that's just what's going to keep me going. But no, I'm so thrilled and honored to be able to do this. I'm really excited we're going to talk. I want to hopefully be able to talk a little bit more about this, but we're we've been working on a big back to school campaign, and so I'm really thrilled that otschoolhouse is part of it. So it made me really want to hear your story and ask you some questions and figure out, like, what we can be doing. But I want to start with my personal favorite question, because it's it's usually so different with everyone else. But what made you a young Jayson Davies want to become an occupational therapist.
Jayson Davies
All right, let's dive into so occupational therapy. It was not on my radar until probably around high school. And the first part the way I was introduced to occupational therapy, kind of twofold. One, my uncle had had a stroke, and, you know, still a pretty decent stroke. I mean, difficult language processing, like even today, right? He is so smart and he likes to follow stocks and whatnot. So he loves to to follow CNBC and whatnot, but he has such difficulty expressing himself, the expressive language is not there. And I remember going to Casa Kalima, the local rehab facility, and seeing him actually interact with occupational therapy. And so that's kind of one side of it, and the other side was that my sister was actually going into occupational therapy. And so I was introduced to OT by kind of observing OT, but I kind of became more familiar with ot because my sister was an OT, and she was here in the local area. Actually, when she went to school, she, like, kind of went up to northern California. I'm in Southern California, so I had, like, no idea what she was doing up in Northern California, but she moved back, and she actually started working at a clinic known for sensory integration down here in Southern California. And that's when I started to shadow her, I probably volunteered 150 to 200 hours at this si clinic. And so I got to follow her around. I got to follow a physical therapist around. I got to follow other OTS around and really learn about si and what that meant. Of course, this was re my education. A lot of these hours were while I was in junior college, trying to figure out which direction I wanted to go. So yeah, that's kind of where it really stemmed from. And I think as I was volunteering, as I was following my sister around, like the thing that really hit me hard was see. Seeing these, these kids, these students, and knowing, thinking back on my high school career, and seeing, you know, the special education classrooms, and the students in those special education classrooms walking around campus kind of segregated. I mean, you know, segregation, quote, unquote, doesn't exist anymore, but segregation definitely still exists. And you see that on your campus, you know, you see the students in the special education classroom, and you don't necessarily know how to interact with them. You you're not given the opportunity to interact with them. And that was definitely something that stemmed my interest, again, in occupational therapy, so kind of a combination of all those three different things. And then if you want to throw even one more thing on top of it, the other area of interest that I had was film production. And film production was not necessarily the most stable option to go with. I would say, you know, it's higher upside, maybe, but also a little more difficult to get in. I wanted to come out of college knowing that I'd be able to pay off my student loans, knowing that I'd be able to get a job and all that. And so there was a little bit of that piece as well. So yeah, all of that led me to occupational therapy.
Abe Saffer
That's amazing. That's it's fantastic that you were able to get all of those, those perspectives of it. So I think you might have already answered this, but just to be clear, like, what when you know you, your experience seemed to be in adult rehab with your uncle, and then more of the SI with your with your sister. But what made you decide finally, like schools were the place that you wanted to work, and you already said you wanted to pay off student loans, so assuming it wasn't related to that, but I'd love to hear what excited you to go into schools.
Jayson Davies
I will say the second job I took was highly related to the student loans, because I got a big pay increase to get my second job. But no, I had no idea I was going to go into the schools until I was in the schools. Honestly, even in college, we had to put together like a five year 10 year plan. And I remember my 10 year plan in college was to open up an SI clinic. Totally blew that one out of the water like now I own an online business, primarily, right with ot school house, but, yeah, I really didn't know I was going to be in the schools until I was in the schools. Honestly, I was just wrapping up my board exams, and a friend who worked in the schools was like, Hey, I know you want to work in pediatrics. I work at this school district through a contract company. And, you know, I enjoy it. I like doing it. And so I got in contact with that third party contracting company, and that's how I landed in the schools. Never looked back. I I did a little bit of home hospital, you know, on the weekends and nights on the way home from my school, school gig, I worked in a cute, sorry, not a cute, a rehab facility for adults on on weekends sometimes. But obviously, I've never left the schools. And now I'm, I get to talk with school based OT practitioners every single day through the OT schoolhouse.
Abe Saffer
Someone who does that as well for a different reason, like it's, it is a perk. I can't even express the school based folks are the absolute best. I know. Schools are such a different setting than anywhere else, like it's I was actually joking the other night that in normal, traditional medical settings, you sort of get the services that your payer will cover, you know, your insurance or whatever. But in schools, it's more, you know, Medicaid is the is considered like a perk, because you just have to provide these services. So it's such a different setting in general. And when you started out, I guess, what do you wish that you had known or that someone had told you when you first started out? And going back, what would you tell the younger you like something that you you know absolutely wish that you would have known back then?
Jayson Davies
Great question. I was actually just writing a newsletter today, and it will have already come out before or by the time this episode airs, but I think one of the big things that I wish I would known was that an IEP doesn't always have to look exactly the same, and your ot services don't have to look exactly the same. In fact, they shouldn't look the same. The first word in IEP is individualized, right? And we, as the OT practitioner, whether we have one year experience or 20 years of experience, we have the ability to customize our services to the way that we best see fit, not the way that the OT before us did services, not the way that the OT at another school or another district services, but the way that we know how to provide services. And we all make the best decisions that we can in the moment that we have right and and the decision that I make today is going to be different from the decision I make a year from now, because I'm going to be a new person. I'm going to have attended New continuing education, I'm going to have learned about new theories, I'm going to have read new research articles, and that's perfectly okay, you know? Uh, you know, when you're a kid, flip flopping is a bad thing here, but, but as you become an adult, you flip flop because you learn new information. You have more information at your disposal. And I think that is really the main thing that I wish I had known at the time. Because I think when I first came into the schools, I was like, Oh, this. IEP has one time a week for 30 minutes as a pullout setting. That must be what the previous ot put on there. I'm just going to keep it the same. But as I became more confident, as I better understood my role as a therapist, I really started to branch out and say, You know what, maybe two times a month, maybe one time a month for 15 minutes at pull out, and one time a month, 15 in the classroom, and started to kind of realize that I had, at least, you know, it's an IEP team decision, but I had the ability to make a recommendation that was different from what someone else might say. And I think that that took a while for me to kind of understand.
Abe Saffer
I'm a regular listener of the podcast, and I don't know if this is like a saying that you normally have, but the line, the first word of the, you know, the first word of the IEP stands for individualized. I don't know if that's if it's a go to that. I've never heard it. It's fantastic, and people might see me use it in the future. I think that that is exactly right. Like it's, you know, there's it's all schools are and education should all be very specifically individualized, but like, as universal as possible. And so I just, I want to highlight that and put in a big sign in my background of meetings We're gonna have to get Abe assigned that he can put it right behind his office. IEP is individualized. No, no, but it is something that I say, and I probably don't say it enough, but I will challenge people. And I think I do this in my A to Z course, I challenge people to look at their caseload and ask themselves, is my caseload actually individualized? Because if you look at your caseload, and every single student is one time a week for 30 minutes, is that IEP really individualized? I mean obviously, or I hope they have different goals. Goals is one way that you can individualize an IEP. Accommodations is a way you can individualize an IEP, right? But, yeah, look at your services, and are they all the same, or are they more individualized? I love it. I was, I was speaking at a conference a couple months ago, and while I was drafting for remarks, I actually threw this parallel between advocacy and OT and I talked about that there's a ton of evidence and best practices and case studies that you can you can do, but when it comes down to actually one specific effort, it is going to be completely different. Like, you could do everything wrong and still succeed and do everything right and still fail. And, like, I, for me personally, that's one of the reasons I love my job, is because it's, it is that individualized, sort of unique effort that you make? And so it's, yeah, like, I love it. So I do want to sort of switch gears just because I'm I want to ask the following question with also the appreciation that I love otschoolhouse, like, what made you decide after school that you wanted to do podcasting and sharing this sort of knowledge with with OTS around the country?
Jayson Davies
Yeah, so 2015 about closer to 2016 2017 is when I started to have this idea, and along with my colleague at the time, so I started practicing in 2012 around August, September, you know, after I did my field work in the summer, passed the boards and whatnot, and then I had moved. I worked one year at a school district through a contractor, relatively local. But then I moved into a new role, and that new role was kind of, I like to I like to joke and say that it's halfway between Las Vegas and Los Angeles. It's kind of out there. And so I was working there with one occupational therapy assistant, and eventually I grew the program to be able to hire another occupational therapist, and we would have our team meetings together, and it would just be the three of us, and we would do this on a monthly basis. And there'd be some times when we were just like, hey guys, I see you every day, like, I don't know what we should have our team meeting about. Like we talk every day, you know, we want to expand and and to be honest, two of us were relatively new into the profession. Profession. Still, at that time, the occupational therapy assistant that we worked with had more experience, but we wanted to kind of get out of our zone of comfort. We wanted to learn more, and we didn't really have that opportunity to we eventually did, actually, we reached out to other districts in the area, and sometimes we would meet with them, and we really appreciated that we loved meeting with other therapists that wasn't us three, like we just found that even if we weren't going to learn from one another, we did learn from one another. Sure, and that ultimately led to the idea of the otschoolhouse com. Part of it was because we wanted to support other OTS. Part of it was completely selfish, because we wanted to learn from other ot practitioners ourselves. And so we decided to start the otschoolhouse com blog. At the time, myself and Abby Parana, who if you've listened to the first few episodes of the podcast, she's actually on the podcast. And over time, we just kind of grew and split directions. She moved away, and so I kind of took over the OT schoolhouse. But yeah, it all started out as a blog. I quickly learned that I don't like typing, and so we moved into a podcast. And yeah, the rest is kind of history. It became courses. It became the otschoolhouse com collaborative, and the back to school conference. And I love being able to support ot practitioners. I also, again, selfishly, love to have this podcast, because I get to talk to therapists and learn from therapists that I would never have had the opportunity to. I mean, we're talking Alice Stover, we're talking Karen Jacobs, Suzanne Smith Rowley, so many ot practitioners that it's just been a dream of mine to, like, have conversations with and I've been able to do that, and I've been able to share them with everyone who listens. So yeah,
Abe Saffer
I love it. That's I can absolutely see that as someone who's, you know, I'm not A, not an OT. I don't have any training. But like working with some of these, these folks that every article that I read is either written by or cited, just the giants in the field, and I'm, I'm talking with them, you know, and working with them like, it's, it's amazing still. And I can't even imagine if I, you know, invested as much time as you did into the profession. So it's that's wonderful. Um, so I love the idea of you just wanting to provide support to your fellow practitioners, as well as get that support. You know, the first thing when I think of supporting practitioners, the first thing I think about is for, I think hopefully obvious reasons, is aota, but the state association is also a huge deal. You living in California, the California ot association is fantastic, you know the and I know a lot of those folks there, but how did being a member of both AOTA and OTAC how that impacted you while you were in the schools, and even while you were starting to, you know, build up and create this, this podcast and this platform, Absolutely both aota and OTAC, the OT Association of California, and now even a few other state associations that I have had the opportunity to speak at, such as Colorado, hoping to get to Texas soon, but yeah, they have had a huge part every step of the way, even well before I was an OT as a student, I as a student, I actually volunteered for the otschoolhouse com. Kind of see what that looked like. Got to be a room monitor and learn from people and and just kind of see how these conferences operate a little bit. So even as a student, I was already kind of getting into it. And I remember going to aota in 2012 and it was down in San Diego. I believe it was 2012 maybe 2011 but I remember seeing that and just being absolutely amazed by the congregation of occupational therapy practitioners. And I like to post on social media occasionally, and I love saying this right, like your ot degree, your otschoolhouse com, ot license is what helps you to get a job, but it is the continuing education that you take that truly makes you the occupational therapist or the occupational therapy assistant that you will become, that you will be tomorrow and the day after that, and and the years after that. And that's a big piece of what OTAC and aota and all the other state organizations support with right a lot of them have online, very low cost, affordable, if not free, continuing education courses that you can learn from from fantastic therapist. And then you got aota, same thing, the big conference, which, you know, Ava had the pleasure of, finally, I think you finally, convinced me to get to an aota conference after 10 years, the pandemic didn't help. But, yeah, you know, getting to the conference and again, being able to make connections, meet new people, and just learn from amazing therapists is just remarkable. And even beyond that, when it comes to the actual business side of things, I still remember like without being a part of otschoolhouse com may never have gotten off the ground because I relied so much on other members when I met with them, kind of asking them, like, Hey, would you be interested in this website that you know, supported school based ot practitioners, and this is kind of what we're thinking about, a podcast where you can earn CEUs and courses and resources and whatnot. And I got a lot of feedback. Like, everyone was just so supportive. So, yeah, every facet, every facet of my ot career, has been supported by aota OTEC. And now, like, now where I am in my career, right? We were, or I've been on the aota podcast. I was a part of the AI and OT webinar that aota put on back in January, I believe it was. And now I've been able to connect with you, which is just amazing, because now I'm getting into the advocacy side of things, which, yeah, I mean, it's getting fun. Yeah, no, that's, that's fantastic. And you passionate professional keyed me up right to my next question, and one that's obviously near and dear to my heart is advocacy. And so I'm, I'm curious that, in both of your roles as that school based practitioner and as well as the entrepreneur, like, what does advocacy mean to you? Like, how do you how does you view that as part of your life?
Jayson Davies
I think for me, it's twofold. And I say this all the time, is that we need to advocate actually, maybe even threefold. You've got to advocate as an OT for your clients. Like, that's, I think, the first place we start, especially as a newer therapist. Like, we don't necessarily know how to advocate for ourselves as a profession or ourselves as an employee, but I think first we learn how to advocate for our students in that IEP or while talking to a teacher or talking to a paraprofessional or lunch aid being able to advocate for them. I think that's the first part. The second part is then advocating for yourself as an employee and being able to share with your administrators, your supervisors, a what you do as an occupational therapist, because many of them still have no idea, or a very, a very small idea, of what we do, and also being able to advocate for things that, gosh, that we shouldn't have to advocate for but we do. But things like having our own space to work with students, things like having actual supplies and therapy materials and evaluation tools that are effective and impactful and can support us and ultimately support the students, being able to advocate for our caseload, for our workload, for the time and the the support that we need, being able to potentially advocate for Even software that might give us more time, especially today in the in the world of AI. So that's the second part. And then you get to the larger part, which is profession, right? Advocating for our profession, which a, you know, and do better than anyone on this planet, I believe, for school based ot practitioners. And that's the piece that I'm just really starting to get a part of recently, I think it was last year I attended the OT Association of California Hill day. It was virtual. I think I've done that maybe two times now. Is just a unique experience, right? Like earlier, we talked about almost being starstruck by talking to like ot practitioners that we never would have been able to talk to. Kind of the same thing goes when you're when you're advocating for your profession, right? Like, the next thing you know, you're on a call with a state senator. And it's funny, I know you've experienced this Abe, right? Like you hop on three or four calls a day, and calls one, two or three, it's all meeting with an aide, right? An aide of the senator, an aide of the state senator, and then call number four happens, and it's like, the actual state senator hops on. You're just like, oh, wait, whoa, you actually care enough to be here and to talk to us as the OT practitioners and really hear from us and and that's really cool. So yeah, I think it's kind of those three different levels that we really have to advocate for ourselves. And in California, I'll add one more thing. In California, we are advocating for ot practitioners to be credentialed employees, and what that means is that we would have the ability to potentially seek out administrative roles if we want to. We won't be required to seek out administrative roles, right? Like no one can make us do that, but it would open up the door for us to be an administrator, and kind of going back to that employee side of advocating. Mean, wouldn't it be cool if your boss was an OT? I mean, I know your boss is an OTA, but to all the school based ot practitioners out there, wouldn't it be cool if your boss actually, you know, had been in your shoes, had actually knew what ot was and and all that good stuff. So imagine the difference that you can make for your students. So, yeah, no, I think you're exactly right on that. And it's, it's something that I've been I've been really trying to push for. I've actually been able to meet seven or eight now, OTs that work at different state departments of education, and they're the ones in different roles. Sometimes they're, you know, the OTPT lead, sometimes they're related service lead, and sometimes they do, like the Medicaid but like, they're all a couple of them, but on this podcast, Elizabeth Duncan, down in Louisiana, I think is one, and then I'm sure others that have just escaping me. But. They're just, it's fantastic. And I think, you know, you hit on that, it's important to sort of express what OT is to as a profession, and having someone in that leadership role to be able to say, well, I already know, and I'm in the room where it happens, you know, to quote Hamilton, and they're having that there is one of the most effective ways that I've seen of folks getting OTs and OTs being able to practice a larger scope of their profession. So that's it's a fantastic, fantastic point. First of all, really quickly, if I can, I love the Hamilton reference, like that soundtrack helped me to get through the pandemic. Also, I got to give a huge shout out right here to Jamie Spencer, because I know Jamie is doing a lot to to try and organize the advocacy among school based ot practitioners. She's doing so much in New York, and I know now she's really trying to basically help other states as well, because they are making progress in New York, and I know in California, we're making progress, and we're trying to get that word out to others. And I know it's hard. I unfortunately, like you mentioned OTAC, OT Assotiation California, like we are strong. We do have a lot of support. We have, I want to say it's one and a half advocates for us in Sacramento, but I know a lot of states don't, a lot of states don't have that support. Maybe the membership isn't great, maybe the Leadership isn't great. Maybe it's a combination of all of the above. Maybe it's just, it's just hard for them to be productive, like it's just art. It takes a lot of volunteer power. It takes a lot of money. And I think in New York, California. I know Texas is doing work too. I believe their association is built up to an extent. And I think that we need to do a lot of work in these states and then really pass it on and say, Hey, we've done this. This is how we did it. This is how we reached out to our state congress people and and support them, because I know from conversations with you, a lot of us want to say, hey, we need to do something in Washington DC, but that's not where everything happens. A lot of things happen at the district, maybe even the county and state levels. So we've got to advocate at all levels, not just in Washington DC.
Abe Saffer
No, absolutely, and especially when it comes to education policy. I mean, I've talked about this ad nauseum, but it's so it's so specific to the state, and even, I mean, not even just like districts, but also sometimes it's different school to school. And so that advocacy piece about advocating for yourself as an employee and for your you know, with being able to express what the profession is to your your colleagues is so important. So, you know, I understand that advocacy and you know, directly asking an elected official or their staff for something can be overwhelming for people, at least in theory, I will put a plug in that I've never once in my career, which I've done this 1000s of times, brought someone who's never advocated before into a meeting and then given them the tools, and then afterwards, them come out and say that was amazing, like they've always done that. But I fully understand it can seem, you know, overwhelming, but in terms of advocating both at the state and federal level, like, what do you feel is the most real, simple way for ot practitioners to advocate for the profession?
Jayson Davies
Well, I can say that you and aota have made it a lot easier with the website that you now have, that you showed me recently where we can easily just send an email to our congress people, and I've actually have, slowly over time, received a few emails back from them. Obviously, to some degree they're auto generated or just, you know, brief, but at least they've gotten them. So I think that's one way. I think another relatively easy way is, is to reach out to your state association and ask them if they're having a hill day or get involved in that hill day. A lot of them are now virtual, which obviously makes it a lot easier on you to attend. But I think the most rewarding one was actually this one, and I had to go outside of my comfort zone, but I felt so much better after I did I was actually attending a car show in my hometown of Gino hills, local car show for whatever reason was going on. And I was just listening, I was like, kind of the presentation was going on. And as the presentation goes on, I hear that a person from so and so's office is here, and she's presenting the car show with the certificate or something like that. And as soon as I heard that, I was like, wait, I know that name. I know that Congress, state Congressman's name. OT Association of California recently sent out an email saying, hey, this person is part of the education committee. Like, we need to get in their ear and understand. And so, oh, gosh, my poor wife. I think I kind of, like, immediately started walking away from my poor wife. I was like, Babe, I need to go talk to this person. And so, yeah, like, I just went up, and I wasn't the actual Congress person that was there. It was, you know, an aide, but because of those emails that OTAC had sent out. And because of the idea that, hey, we need to advocate, I looked up on my phone, I looked up that email that Otac had sent out so I could get the key points in my head. And then I walked up and I said, Hi, Mrs. So and so, like, Hey, I just want to express that I'm an occupational therapist, and in California, we're trying to get OTS credentialed here so that we can, you know, support all of our students, all the staff on public education campuses. And I'd really appreciate if you and your congressperson would support a, b, whatever number it was. And and she was like, Hey, thank you. You know, as you know, my congressman is on the Department of Education, and we really value your input. And would you mind just following up with me with an email? And so now I developed a conversation with this person. I got her business card. I was able to follow up with an email that just kind of restated what I had already talked to her about. And I developed that personal relationship with her, and now I have her email saved in my my Google, whatever inbox, and if I wanted to, I could open that conversation again anytime I wanted. And, yeah, it was scary, but at the end of the day, right? Like it didn't hurt me one bit. Took five minutes of my time and I advocated for the profession.
Abe Saffer
No, that's, that's fantastic. I mean, I love, I love that story, and I will tell you that you should absolutely avail yourself of emailing that person whenever anything pops up, and whether it is a just checking on this or a hey, thank you for doing this, like all of those things, anytime you connect with them, like it just helps build those relationships. And after a while, like you just start, they'll start to reach out to you and say, like, Hey, we're we're working on this. Like, what do you think? And I had that happen recently with some folks at the Department of Ed, and that is the best feeling in the world when you're, like, being asked by the people that are pushing this stuff out. But I love that, so I want to talk, switch it to you. Talked about being selfish. I don't think there's any profession that's more self serving than mine, and so I don't think it's any any secret that I love the profession, and I am a big believer that we need aota itself needs to be doing just as much as we can, although, you know, we are staffed and we have limited resources. But what do you feel like? I think you sort of touched on this a little bit, but we'll start off with the positive, like, what do you feel like you're get being a member of aota from the National Association, and we won't include me joining your podcast, because I'm doing that because I'm a super fan.
Jayson Davies
You know, after attending AOTA like, the thing that jumps to the top is community is just, you know, being able to get into a room of 150 other school based ot practitioners, let alone 1000s of OT practitioners in general, right? And being able to have conversations that we just aren't able to have when we're sitting in our district that has anywhere from one to 25 to 50 ot practitioners, if you're at a really big district, obviously, but that community side is huge, and then you have the To be honest, something that I don't participate in enough, and I think about it all the time, but the OT community That aota has, right? Like there is an entire online community that you have access to as aota, and honestly, I need to use that more, because that is part of that community aspect, and you don't have to necessarily partake and organize professional development in order to learn right. Like you learn from just you learn from those informal conversations, and you learn by asking questions and receiving answers. You learn by answering questions that other ot practitioners have. So that community is huge, and then the other piece is definitely the the advocacy. Like, we don't see it all, and we get email updates sometimes about A, B, number, number, number, number, but we don't see that, but we know that it's happening. Honestly, if I because I think your next question is kind of like, what could AOTA potentially, you know, do more for school based OT's? For me personally, it would just be the communication side of things, like sharing with us more updates that are specific to what we're worried about. Her to the her to our concerns. And I know that's hard, because aota has a large, broad basis, right? Like within ot there are, I don't know how many different areas of OTR are there, like, when you're filling out those questionnaires, like, what area are you in? And there's like, eight or 10. If not more different areas that we can select. And that's hard, because what applies to me as a school based ot practitioner maybe doesn't always apply to acute rehab practitioner. And we have those, sis, right, specialized individual.
Abe Saffer
Special interest section, interest section.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, yes, that. And so we have those, but I feel like we just don't get as much information that I think we'd really like to have. And so I think that's the that's one of the areas for me as a newer school based OT, the professional development was huge now, as I've gone through a lot of professional development courses, and now, at 10 years into being an OT I feel like I have so many different ways that I can access professional development, but definitely upfront. Being part of the state and being part of aota was was my primary way to earn professional development. So that was huge. But I think now it's moved more toward the community side and the advocacy side, because I've said it before, like, without a OTA, ot doesn't exist, so we need a OTA there to support us. We need to support ot aota as well as our states.
Abe Saffer
I agree, but it's always good to hear hear that sort of feedback, just because, I mean, obviously I'm partial to advocacy, but also on the community side of it, I always liken AOTA conference as like a wedding. It's everyone you love is in one spot, and you just don't feel like you have enough time to interact with and connect with all of them. I mean, it's I'm a pretty extroverted person, and after that, I'm always exhausted because I've just spent, you know, 18 hours a day just talking to everyone that I've been working with for years. So it's, oh my goodness, it's fantastic. And you and you organized like, a happy hour for a bunch of school based practitioners, and that, like, was one of my favorite memories from from Orlando, being able to be be part of that, and I'm hoping to, you know, I'll share with you, but when, when it's ready. But I'm hoping to be able to have some surprises for the school based community and and Philly, so we will see, But.
Jayson Davies
I cannot wait.
Abe Saffer
Yeah, I can't either. If I get it together, we'll we'll see. But it's exciting. So I think you sort of answered it a little bit like the communication piece is definitely something that I think the advocacy team has a love hate relationship with, because sometimes you can provide updates and a win will come completely random, and it can be difficult at times, but we want to be able to frankly, brag about what we do, because we're very proud. But I guess you know, short of the more of the communication and updates on what's going on. Like, what else would you love to see from aota? Like, what else would you love to see in terms of either resources or support or, you know, really, anything that you feel like would help you in any phase of the of the job?
Jayson Davies
I think two things come to mind. One is community, maybe on a smaller scale. You know, getting some people to organize small events in local communities, almost. I mean, some of the bigger cities, maybe. But, you know, bringing people together. I know they do, like the the pediatric conference. I think it's being held in Seattle this December. But even if there's just, I don't know who would be the people in charge of it. I don't know how it would get done, but just organizing, maybe some smaller meetups for not just school based ot practitioners, but, you know, other areas as well. And and get creative, you know, bowling or miniature golf, or, you know, meet at an arcade, like just small things to kind of establish that community, keep that community growing. That would, I think that's the main thing that comes to my mind. But you also mentioned, like resources. And I OTA, actually, I'm always surprised by the resources. Whenever I log on, like I I forget what is actually there, and there is quite a bit. And I don't know when did the rebrand take process, or when did the rebrand of the website start? Maybe, like, five, six years ago.
Abe Saffer
It was and then, you know, like it was around covid. So it could have either been three years. I don't know at this point, no, but yeah, it was four or five years ago now.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, and since then, I've noticed that, I will say there are still a few, and we've talked about this, there's still a few resources that kind of haven't been updated, but there are a lot of resources that I didn't know were there, and I think that kind of leads back to that communication piece like you have, there's so much to communicate, and you're trying to communicate it to so many people. AOTA, I mean, and we just forget what's actually on the website. And so I would encourage all the school based ot practitioners to go over to the website, to the specific area for school based OT. Right? But also, Abe hasn't even talked about this much yet. Maybe in the intro he talked about it. We haven't recorded that yet, but he's developing an entire website, part, or at least an entire page on a OTS website that is dedicated to like back to school, and it has resources for advocacy. It has resources to share ot with their administrators. It has resources to share ot with anyone, not to mention resources actually help you as a practitioner. So definitely check out what is going on over on the website.
Abe Saffer
Well, I appreciate that I started off as a I just wanted to be able to, you know, celebrate and, you know, draw attention to some of the stuff that we've done. But it really turned into a, I think, a really good exercise of, how do you just remind folks what we have? Because we'll tell you that there, I reached out to the whole team, the whole organization, and they said, This is what I'm doing. What resources should I and I learned a bunch of things that we had that I didn't even know we'd had, and it's just because, like, everyone's busy and, you know, you see emails or like, Hey, we're rolling this out, and you're like, great, but unless you use them regularly, it's hard to remember. So like, we're, you know, I know all my advocacy resources, but there's some great stuff on there, including, I will put a pitch in for free contact hours, webinars and different events that provide completely free contact hours, and I think even one that might be MC I can't remember if it's on it or not, but there's a lot of contact hours, so yeah, hopefully people will be able to participate and take big part in that. This was absolutely amazing. I just really loved hearing your story, and hearing hearing, you know, your journey, and sort of like your your perspective on on both the association as well as advocacy. By the time that people hear this, I will have already participated in the back to school conference with as the advocacy panel, something that is near and dear to my heart. So I was, I was thrilled to be be part of that. And I know my colleague, barley shall last is going to be participating in another panel. So like we're aunt a loves. Love is otschoolhouse com. We're all over it, and people can still stream it for after the fact, right? I want to make sure we give a plug for people to check that out. I was, you know, by the time people hear this, your back to school conference is going to be in the rear view mirror. I'm really excited that I get to be part of a panel on advocacy. And, you know, I'm really looking forward to being able to participate in future conferences and future opportunities to provide your folks, you know, people in your community to be able to learn about advocacy, while also, you know, feeling empowered for it is that's, that's what I love to do. So it's funny whenever you email me and thank me for things, and I'm just like, you're doing the work that I wish that I had time and the resources to do. So really appreciate everything you do for, you know, for the community is, I mean, the OTS are special. And I will say that I feel like on the dart board of special that school based folks, for me, are right in that middle Bullseye area where they're just a little bit more special. So then I say that, not just as someone who works for ATA, but someone who is the son of two public school educators, and basically one of my family has gotten ot at some point in the last in the last eight years of my time at Aotea. So just really thank you for everything you've done, and I really appreciate you letting me take over your podcast. This was a lot of fun, and I will might have to strong arm you into letting me do this again with some point.
Jayson Davies
I think you just need to start your own podcast, like the OT advocacy podcast and and go.
Abe Saffer
We, we've done a couple of them. We used to do it. We actually have a it was like called policy matters, which had the double meaning. But we just because after covid and with some of our our staffing stuff, we just it has not come back up, but it might be something that is is worthwhile, or even just doing, you know, Facebook Lives, or whatever, where we're just trying to, as, you know, talk to people what we're doing. You know, I do office hours where I don't talk about how to practice, but how, like, what's going on in policy, and answer questions and hear from people. So I just did one again. When people hear this, it'll be last week, but keep looking at the AOT website for when, then the next one is scheduled. We sort of do those ad hoc but this was, this was fantastic. And I'm just, I'm so glad that you were able to make that switch and sort of use the filmmaking and the sort of, you know, entertainment value, as well as the occupational therapy training to create this for practitioners, because it is, it is something we really need. And by we, I mean not a practitioner, but like, pretend like I'm cool.
Jayson Davies
You are cool, but no before, before you let me go or I let you go. I don't know how which way it would be, but. I two things. One, I definitely think an occasional Facebook, YouTube, live, whatever that might be, would be awesome. I think when we were talking about communication earlier, I think that would go so far. And the office hours that you're doing, I know, I know you understand the communication piece because you're doing the office hours like that is huge. But the other thing I was going to say, and I don't, unless someone has been to aota and met you the conference like they don't know what your role at aota is, and I had no idea what it was, until I, you know, landed and woke up early. Actually, I woke up late for the first day of aota and was walking by and you were literally sitting by yourself at a little table just waiting for someone to sit with you like I knew I was going to meet with you. We had had plans. You owed me a drink, and I think you still owe me a drink, but I had no idea that you would just be sitting at a table waiting for people to come talk to you like that's how open you up.
Abe Saffer
Yeah, no, I, I love talking with folks. I mean, the I look at I look at conference, so I'm always by a OTS pack booth every at every conference. And actually, we started budgeting to have a table and chairs there. After a number of years with some of the best conversations that I've had with folks, I actually met an OT this year, who does accessibility, an organ, a company with it's her and an architect or an interior designer, and they actually like work with schools on, like, inclusive, accessible classrooms. And I was, I think she told me I was one of the first meetings she had that she met someone at conference when she showed up and I was able to bring her up for a big meeting on that exact thing. I love it like i i at conference, I am either in a session going for my run, or I'm sitting at that little table, generally trying to work, but most of the time just like, like, asking people to interrupt me so that I can talk and hear what's going on. So you know, if you see me ever, I hope people just feel free to reach out and and flag me down, because it's I just, I love it like it's, it's, I always learn something, and you just, you get smarter and better at your life by talking to by talking to practitioners. That's just the way it is.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, yeah. And also, if people can't make it to a OTA in Philly or wherever city, it's going to be in the coming years, how can people get a hold of you? Because I know you are super open to emails and responding.
Abe Saffer
Oh yeah. So I'm on so I'm on Twitter. Will not call it anything else, sorry, but it's Abe, a, b, e, A ,O, T, A. But you can also, I think you can find me on the website, on the OTS website, and I'll Google it right now, just to make sure that I'm right. But my email address is just abe saffer, s, a, f, f, e, r, @aot.org, and you can feel free to reach out to me there. And my my usual go to response is, sure, let's set up a time to talk. And I even have a link in my signature that I just say, like, find a time that works. We'll read it. And my only request is that you give me a little, a little understanding when I get jump on and I'm like, I don't know what we're talking about, but I'm here, so I'm always looking for people to be able to reach out, just because I think the most important thing for folks to know is I have no idea what issues are around, unless someone tells me. So if people aren't, you know, if someone's reaching out and saying, I'm struggling to do this, sometimes I can say, that's, you know, here's some tips and things that I think might help. But sometimes I'm like, I don't even know what you're talking about. Like, can you take 10 minutes and explain it to me, and then the Add part of me will go down that rabbit hole and learn way too much. But it is such a prerequisite for the job to be able to, like, have those conversations. So I, you know, please, over over, reach out and then under, because it's only going to be a benefit.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, well, Abe, I know you're hosting this, but I want to ask you one more question as we wrap up. Yeah, I gave my idea for advocating a little bit like the things that that I've done, but from your perspective, what is the, you know, first drop in the bucket, like, way that someone can advocate for the profession, and just like, you know, dip their toe in the water.
Abe Saffer
So I this is, again, gonna sound probably self serving, but I think I've established that that's my comfort zone. I firmly believe the work that aota does is some of the best stuff that we do. Like our events, I think are the best, even though other folks are doing great events and our resources are amazing. Our practice team and event team are just fantastic. Everyone I work with are some of the best, most dedicated people. But if aota went away tomorrow, people, you know, there's other places and organizations that would fill in some of those voids, except for ad. Advocacy. And so I agree, we are advocating constantly, like I'm, you know, like I said, I'm reaching out to, like, the Department of Ed to make sure that there's ways to educate the public on what OTs and, you know, making sure that it's, it's clear that we're eligible for certain things. And in terms of my job and burnout, which, you know, is a really important issue, just everywhere, the only time that I ever really feel stressed, really feel like, you know, starting to feel burnt out, is when there's an opportunity I can't capitalize on, whether that's, you know, like, there's a new grant out there, or there's a new bill that I want to be able to, like, get ot included, but I just don't have the time. And so what I tell folks is that if you want to get that advocacy starts at the most basic level with aota. And right now, if we doubled our membership, there wouldn't be, we wouldn't, still not, would not represent half of the profession, but there'd be two of me, or two of our practice folks, or two you know, of my boss or my colleagues on advocacy again, self serving. I love there being more than me, more of me. So I sell people advocacy to state association and aota at the bare minimum, because the quote that I use a lot when I'm speaking to otschoolhouse com higher ed levels is that there's a quote from Dr Martin Luther King, Jr, that says the moral arc of the universe bends towards justice. And I think we sort of understand that, that you know what that means. But I think there's also a connotation that like it's going to by itself, but when reality is that the phrase, the way that he used it in the speech, was that it's not going to bend unless we bend it like we need to do that. And so to see, you know, if we want to have the profession that we all know and love, one where OTS are the ones handling, you know, falls and not ETS, or that eating and feeding are handled by OTs and that SLPs, or that kids with autism are being seen by OTs and not only ABA therapists. That's all advocacy. Because if you're not constantly advocating to of your of your role, and sort of to expand it, then you're going to be on defense. And if you don't have the people to be on defense, you're it's not going to be a defense. It's going to just be a slaughter. So advocacy at the very core a OTS there is to protect and expand the profession, and then beyond that, it's to just find opportunities where we can have the biggest impact. And you know, that's we have a dedicated team that's just amazing. And sometimes I can't believe the stuff that we do, just in terms of how much it is. And so that's what I tell everyone. Like, if, if you want to be an advocate, do that, and then if you want to do more, reach out to me. Give me a call and tell me you want to, you want to be an advocate. And I will tell you some ways to start and help you through those like, or hand you off to a grassroots person who will help you do that. Or, you know, put you in touch with the state association, like, whatever I need to do to make sure that you feel comfortable.
Jayson Davies
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, here at the OT school house, right? Like, I've got a little posted note in my hand, and these are kind of, like the four key areas that we focus on at the otschoolhouse, com, school based OTS. Those are providing research, providing, you know, all things treatment and evaluations, like just kind of ideas, templates, all that fun stuff, helping therapists be organized in any way that they need to be. And the last one that I have on that list of four things is advocacy, and that's a huge one. You know, personally, for me, it's something that I I will not stop being a member of aota or my state organization. In fact, I may even add other state organizations that I support for the same exact reason you just mentioned, but advocacy is the fourth one on my list, not necessarily because it's at the bottom, but it is definitely something that I just don't have the capacity to do as much as organizations Like state and aota, state organizations and aota, because they have people like you and your boss and everyone that's like focused on that. And I think if we were to look back in time, right, aota was put together for the purpose of advocacy. If I'm not correct, please correct me, but it's not a OTA was not designed for professional development. I don't believe aota was not designed necessarily for handouts. It was designed to forward our profession through advocacy and other means. And when we say, you know, what is a OTA doing for us? It's not just the professional development. It is not just the resources online. It's not just. I guess putting ot out there in front of consumers, it is advocating for us at different levels of the government to make sure that we continue to have a job like without AOTA, we wouldn't probably be mentioned in IDEA, I'm assuming, is, is that fair to say,
Abe Saffer
Yeah, think so.
Jayson Davies
So, I mean.
Abe Saffer
Yeah.
Jayson Davies
Like, we wouldn't be an IDA, which means we'd be an afterthought. Like, there are many professions that would love to be mentioned in IDA, I'm sure that are not. And we are mentioned in IDA because we had someone at the table.
Abe Saffer
Yeah, no, I, I completely, I completely agree. And, you know, I really appreciate all your work and that. And I never looked at it as it was the fourth, because it was the least. But it was because I think, like, I think, like, what, you know, I feel honored to be part of this. But like, like, everyone in the OT community, your list of priorities isn't ranked by importance. It's I have a lot to do, and I need to figure out how to have the time to do it all. Yeah, so, and you're using that task analysis to figure out, like, what's the what's the best return on investment? So no, I appreciate that. Yeah. Well, I will end it there. I will take back the reins of control, but really, Jason just cannot. Thank you enough for everything you do and letting me do this. This was fun, and I hope everyone finds gets as much out of it as I did, but please feel free to reach out to me if there's anything I can do, and I'm talking to everyone, and you know you can go to aoc.org, and back to school stuff will be, will be there through the end of September. And there's a lot of, like I said, resources and events and different different things that people will be able to really, I hope benefit from both members and non members, like we're trying to, we hope that people want to go to become members, but we wanted to make sure that that everyone had opportunity to see what what AOT can do. So again, thank you so much for this. This was this was fantastic.
Jayson Davies
Thank you, Abe. It's been fun. Take care.
Abe Saffer
Yeah. Have it going.
Jayson Davies
All right, everyone give a round of applause for Abe Saffer taking over today with the hosting responsibilities. Thank you so much. A for coming on here, taking over the microphone and interviewing me that was fun. Haven't been interviewed in a while, and really appreciated sharing a little bit about my story and sharing all the fun stuff that we have going on, or that you have going on, I should say over at AOTA and I have going on at the otschoolhouse com, I am so glad that we've had some opportunities to collaborate. In fact, I am recording this outro about two days after you just came and presented or sat on a panel with us at the back to school conference, and I cannot thank you enough for that. If you enjoyed this episode and getting to know Abe a little bit. Be sure to give him a follow on the platform formerly known as Twitter for ot advocacy updates, some fun Abe comedy that I always appreciate and so much more. His handle over on x is at Abe, a o t a, Abe, A O T, A, be sure to give him a follow over there. It's just a lot of great stuff, especially during the aota conference, or whenever he is doing something special, some great stuff to be aware of over there. And finally, also be sure to check out aota.org/backtoschool for some great school based ot resources. He's got updates on advocacy over there. He's got updates on just everything going on with OT. They have a lot of resources for school based OTs, like a flyer or a handout to give to your administrators to help them better understand OT. A lot of good stuff. They've kind of brought the best resources available for school based ot practitioners and put them on that site. I really hope that they don't take that site down anytime soon, because there's so much more there than is just for back to school. There's stuff there that will help you out all year long. So one more time. Thank you so much for listening along and learning a little bit about my story and why I advocate for every ot practitioner to be an AOTA member. And yeah, it's been fun. It's been real. I will catch you on the next episode of the otschoolhouse com. Have a great start to the school year.
Amazing Narrator
Thank you for listening to the otschoolhouse podcast for more ways to help you and your students succeed right now, head on over to otschoolhouse.com Until next time class is dismissed.
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