OTS 181: How to kick off the School Year with Confidence
- Jayson Davies
- Jul 28
- 45 min read
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Welcome to the show notes for Episode 181 of the OT Schoolhouse Podcast.
Are you a school-based occupational therapist looking to streamline your practice, build stronger collaborations, and navigate the complexities of documentation, assessments, and district requirements?
In this episode, Krupa Kuruvilla shares invaluable tips and systems she's developed over her 10+ years in the field. From managing limited workspace to effective parent communication, her insights will help you kick off the school year with confidence and organization.
Whether you're a seasoned pro or just starting out, these practical strategies will elevate your OT practice and make your school year more manageable and impactful.
Listen now to learn the following objectives:
Learners will identify practical strategies for organizing caseloads, documentation, and assessments.
Learners will recognize effective communication techniques with teachers, support staff, and families.
Learners will understand how to navigate shared workspaces and limited resources in school settings.
Guest(s) Bio
Krupa earned her Bachelor's in Occupational Therapy in India in 2008 and her Master's from the University of Southern California (USC) in 2009. Over the years, she worked across diverse settings, both adult and pediatric, while seamlessly stepping into management roles. However, her true forte emerged in School-Based Pediatrics, where she found her niche.
In 2021, Krupa founded TotalReport, a company dedicated to documentation for Pediatric Occupational Therapy practitioners across schools, clinics, and early intervention programs. TotalReport has been featured on numerous national platforms, and she has been a speaker at various events across the U.S., Canada, and India.
Currently, Krupa serves as the Head of Strategy and Operations for Schools at Ascend Pediatrics, In her spare time, Krupa enjoys writing fictional novels, reading, watching movies, dancing, cooking, and, most importantly, spending time with her husband and two children.
Quotes
"Give yourself permission to grow and breathe, and prioritize connections over perfection."
— Krupa Kuruvilla, MA, OTR/L
"School-based OT is that communication is the glue that holds your treatment together."
— Krupa Kuruvilla, MA, OTR/L
"The key to staying on top of Medi-Cal billing is breaking things down into manageable steps and staying ahead of deadlines."
—Krupa Kuruvilla, MA, OTR/L
"Stay two steps ahead with your assessments—review, plan, and build in buffer time."
— Krupa Kuruvilla, MA, OTR/L
“I like to use text replacement… to type an acronym, and it will replace it with the full word.”
—Jayson Davies, M.A., OTR/L
Resources
👉 Total Report Website — Access templates, resources, and tools created by Krupa to support school-based OTs.
👉 Google Drive & Google Calendar — Essential tools for organization and scheduling.
👉 Trello — Optional project management tool (use with caution for HIPAA compliance).
👉 Evernote — Note-taking app for quick documentation.(use with caution for HIPAA compliance).
Episode Transcript
Expand to view the episode transcript
Jayson Davies
Hey there, and welcome to episode 181 of the OT school house podcast. Thank you so much for being here as we wrap up the month of July and work our way into August. Summer is coming to a close, and we are going to be diving back into the back to school season. So that is why in this episode, we are diving head first into what it takes to start off the school year strong as a school based ot practitioner. In today's episode, I'm joined by Krupa Kuruvilla, an occupational therapist with over a decade of experience both as a practitioner as well as now an operations leader for a company, who works alongside school districts and school based ot practitioners. She's also the founder of total report, which is an OT geared company revolutionizing documentation for school based practitioners. Today, Krupa is here to share her strategies for navigating the chaos of the back to school season, and what better of a time to do it. Krupa is going to be bringing practical tips for building rapport with staff, managing the ever shifting caseload and workloads and all that fun stuff that comes with being a school based ot practitioner, as well as transforming limited workspaces into effective therapy environments. So whether you are a veteran ot practitioner looking to streamline your systems, or a first year practitioner still finding your rhythm, or even you're just about to start your very first year as a school based ot practitioner. When school starts up this season, you are in the right place to help save time, save energy, and get off to a great start. So grab your Google Calendar, your favorite sticky notes, and maybe even a cup of coffee or tea, because we are about to turn your back to school stress into back to school success. Let's do it.
Amazing Narrator
Hello and welcome to the OT school house podcast, your source for school based occupational therapy tips, interviews and professional development. Now to get the conversation started, here is your host, Jayson Davies. Class is officially in session.
Jayson Davies
Krupa, welcome to the OT school house podcast. How are you doing today?
Krupa Kuruvilla
Hi, Jason, I'm good. How are you
Jayson Davies
doing? Fantastic. Thank you so much for being here. We're going to dive into some really great topics at the perfect time today, because we're going to be talking about, like, really kicking off the school year to to have a successful school year. And you know, this episode coming out right at the end of July, early August, is the perfect time to do that. I want to start off by asking you a question. It's obviously summertime right now, and a hot take is whether or not people work during the summer when they're off contract. So I wanted to actually give you a moment to talk a little bit about your the way that you work in school based ot as a contract or as an in house employee, how that works, and get your take on whether or not you work during the summertime.
Krupa Kuruvilla
Great question. First of all, I hope all the OTs who are not working this summer are having an amazing holiday. And for those of you who worked es y, thank you so much for doing that. I have worked in a variety of ways. So when I was working with contracting companies, I didn't always get a chance for ESI. But when I was working directly with the school district, they kind of preferred having in house employees, and we always got first dibs. So I did do a lot of ESI when I was working contracting. I mean, not contracting when I was working directly with the school districts. At the moment, though, I have moved over from clinical to non clinical. So I do deal with a lot of OTs. I am in the operation side, so I deal with OTs who are doing es y. I think it's great. I think it's, you know, it's a nice continuation of what you have already been doing through the school year, and it's just so nice to see the kids and kind of maintain where we want them to be at so yeah,
Jayson Davies
yeah. And kind of along those same lines, though, as that, what were some things that maybe either whether you were working es y or not, what were some things that you like to do during the summer to kind of maybe even prepare a little bit for that next school year.
Krupa Kuruvilla
Oh, yeah. So what I do typically at the end of the school year, when whether or not I'm working summer, so if I'm working es, y, first of all, I want to make sure that I have the caseload and everything before I even start on day one, I want to make sure that all the kids who are receiving as y are showing up the service minutes are correct. The frequency is accurate. You know, I like to make sure what my workspace is going to be in the schools, where I'm going to be seeing them, and if I'm not working as why, I like to kind of check out on all my documentation, make sure all my notes are complete. I like to have a running calendar of all the makeup sessions that need to be done, because sometimes, I mean, it happens often that you're not able to get through all those makeup sessions at the end of the school year. So I need to make sure that those minutes are accounted for when you start the next school year. I like to have all my IEP timelines and any upcoming evaluations, because come August, there will be a lot of evaluations that, you know, from the get go, you have to start doing those. So I like to have all of those in order in my calendar. I like to stay very organized. And I think Google has been a lifesaver when it comes to that. You know, Google Sheets, Google Calendar, Google everything, and at the beginning of the school year, I'd like to kind of say that, because it kind of joins into the end of the school year. I do send out, you know, welcome letters, welcome templates, so I work on those at the end of the school year as well, when I'm wrapping up, you know, just to make sure that I have an updated template, an updated welcome letter and things like that, just to make sure that the documentation is complete. And when it comes to equipments and materials, I have an inventory just to see what am I running low on? What do I need to replenish? What do I need to swap out? What needs to be cleaned, sterilized? And then I go from there.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, good deal. And yeah, you know, you started to kind of lead to the next direction that I wanted to go with starting the school year. But I do have a quick follow up, because you brought up the idea of missed sessions. And I think we're gonna, we were gonna get into this later, but you brought it up now. And in your experiences, as you mentioned, you've worked four districts as a contractor in house, and now you know, in this administrative role a little bit, how have you seen makeup services made up within the different areas that you've been in? So it's
Krupa Kuruvilla
tricky. It's almost like a jigsaw puzzle that OTs need to work with. I when I am scheduling my treatment sessions for the beginning of the school year. When I was doing that, I would always make sure to keep in some buffer time, because the buffer could be for anything. Sometimes you're pulled into an impromptu meeting, sometimes the principal just wants to talk to you about a certain student. At other times, you're traveling in between school sites, so you need to have that travel time buffered in as well. So I would use that buffer time many a times for my makeup sessions. The other alternative is, if there's students that are absent, and you know, you kind of have those 30 or 45 minutes to kind of make up on the sessions that you've missed. So I think those two were my go to is when it comes to making up sessions.
Jayson Davies
Did you ever have a district? And I don't think I really had this. I know I always thought about it as an option, but did you ever have a district where they wanted to make up some of those sessions during a break, whether it be summer, spring break, winter break, where they would actually ask you to get in touch with a parent to say, Hey, can you make up some of these services during a break?
Krupa Kuruvilla
You know what? Actually, I've had a lot of parents approach me with that question, but the districts that I worked with didn't really allow for that.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, yeah, and I've heard it happen, but it seems like in most cases, the district wants to, almost to a degree, operate on their terms, and they want to do it while a child is in school, so I get it just wondering, if you had experienced that
Krupa Kuruvilla
one, oh, just on the same topic, I could also group students who have similar goals, and if they have group on their IEPs, then that's another quick way to make up sessions as well.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, yeah, good idea there. All right. We started with kind of summer, because right now it is summertime as we're recording this, but I want to dive into the start of the school year. And so you alluded to some, and I think you're going to work some of those back in here. But what are some of your go to steps during those first few weeks on campus to kind of get you set up for a successful school year? So I
Krupa Kuruvilla
like to call the first few weeks the OT version of back to school boot camp. I like to set the stage, you know, for the rest of the year. So the first thing that I do is get my caseload in order. I review the IEPs, the students that I have on the caseload, their service minutes, and then there's always trying to crack the mysterious case of the workspace, because, unfortunately, not OTs have a room at the district or the schools that you're working at. So, you know, sometimes you would be just working out of a closet, or it could be an empty classroom with no furniture, so kind of working through, you know, where you would be seeing the students when you're pulling them out, where can you just get some quiet time to sit and do your paperwork? The next important thing I would do is just building these relationships. I make it a priority to introduce myself to the admin, the other support staff, the related service providers. I feel like building these communication bridges earlier on in the school year, just makes collaboration so much easier. And if I can remember everyone's coffee otter, then that's bonus points for me. Other than that, I think just the school secretary, more often than not, has been my best friend. So I gather all these resources from them about, you know the school map, because you need to know where the classrooms are, where you will be working. You know where these students are located, the IEP can. Calendar, most important, so you can plug those dates in, about IEP and you can have those timelines ready. You know when you have an annual coming up, when's the tri annual, your evaluations, the bell schedule, which is extremely important when it comes to kind of plugging in your schedule. You know when you'll be seeing them for your sessions. And then just a staff directory to know where you can find what teacher and how you can just get in touch with them. And then other than that, I think logistics, like getting your email set up and your I, you know, just going to it, and getting your information for all, you know, the IEP systems, the logins for the IEP systems. Yeah, so I think these are all the steps that I take to set myself up for success at the beginning of the school
Jayson Davies
year. Okay, yeah. And you mentioned some key pieces that I often talk about as well, like getting to know not just the teachers, but also the support staff. A lot of OT practitioners swear by getting to know the custodian. You talked about the secretary as well. There's a lot of people to meet, and so I just want to get your take on how you go about organizing that part a little bit. Because I know in my history working in the schools like I'm terrible with names, and I would forget the Secretary's name at every single school site, and I'd forget the custodians name, and I forget even the teachers that I work with on a regular basis their names, but how do you kind of, do you have any strategies for keeping it in order with that?
Krupa Kuruvilla
Yeah, I know this is very common, especially when you're traveling between multiple school sites, it's easy to kind of either forget the names or just even get the names mixed up. But when I meet staff members in general, I try to keep it really warm and very clear, and I've introduced myself as, you know, not just Hi, I'm the OT, but I also just give a quick question that I'm here to support the students. What do you think is the best way, or, you know, what has worked with you in the past? So just beyond the introduction, I try to make myself visible and available in small ways. So I make it a point to just walk into the office every morning say hi to everyone. Help a teacher adapt an activity. It could be a teacher who, you know, I have the students on my case over I do not but if they need help adapting the classroom or, you know, just some alternative seating in their classroom, I try to make myself available there. I love sharing resources, so whether it's staff that I'm working with or whether it's, you know, service providers, who I am not constantly in touch with, but I love sharing resources, because I just feel like they're so helpful, whether you're seeing, you know, some sensory concerns with a child or fine motor concerns. I think OTs have this amazing bank of knowledge that could help every teacher. So, and I've learned that these relationships, honestly, Jason, don't usually start in formal meetings. It's, you know, the best relationships can start in the break room or in the hallway, or, you know, in the copy room when you're just making copies. So that's what I think, going the extra mile. It it helps a huge deal. Yeah,
Jayson Davies
I want to ask you this. Sorry. This is a situational question, I think, and I want to see how you do this, because there have been some times where I've sat out down on my desk, I'm like, Oh, this is a great article that I've got in my hand or in my that I'm looking at on the computer, or this is a great resource that I'm looking at and I'm thinking about a teacher. I'm thinking about someone on campus that might be able to use this resource. But at the same time, in the back of my head, I don't want to be that person that's like, pushy. I don't want to be like, here's an article that I think you'll enjoy. You should spend 10 minutes of your time reading this, because we both know what kid we're thinking about, and so sometimes I won't send it because I'm feeling a little self conscious. Have you ever experienced that? And how do you make it so that teachers actually want the resources and don't necessarily feel like the OT is just giving me more work, yay. I
Krupa Kuruvilla
know I completely understand. I know it's so exciting when you find something that relates directly to your caseload, and you just want to shout it out from the roof, rooftops like, you know, this is I found something amazing. But what I've noticed, what works best with communication, with the IDT or the interdisciplinary team, is that tailoring your communication to each one's type. So let's say a psychologist would appreciate an in depth explanation of what you've read, or, you know, just some insight. Teachers are so busy they have 25 students, and, you know, they're juggling so many different things. So they appreciate more short and actionable updates. So when it comes to that, I will talk about specific students who this can help. And, you know, just catch them in the break room or on their break in the hallway. Or, you know, sometimes I just walk to class with them, and then I just, you know, start the conversation with something like, Hey, you know, what do you want to hear something about this? Or, I found an amazing way to help. Jason, you know, do you have a couple minutes? So. So instead of just kind of sending them the article or narrating the whole research that I've read, I kind of try to make it relevant to them for each particular student and just catch them, you know, even if it's a couple minutes of their time, I'm sure it helps. And then that's kind of like the hook to get them into it. And then if they want to learn more, more often than not, they do approach me,
Jayson Davies
yeah, yeah, you, you kind of work that in back to a response that you said earlier about like, providing quick wins. And I think that's absolutely, like the best way to do it. If you can help someone in five minutes, they're, you know, probably 20 times more likely to come back and and ask you for more support in the future. So absolutely, quick wins for the win. All right, one more question really related to starting off the school year, and you mentioned Google as being your go to organizational tool at the beginning of the school year, there's so much to juggle. Like we have schedules, we have Bell schedules that we have to work around. We've got lunch and all that fun stuff, not to mention a caseload of, you know, 50 to 100 kids. So what are some strategies that have helped you to organize when reviewing your caseload at the start of the school year?
Krupa Kuruvilla
I think reviewing your caseload is like, you know, just organizing your caseload is like completing a sudoku puzzle. You know, there'll be changes. I think that's one thing that OTs need to remember. You will never have your caseload set in stone in week one, and I think once you recognize that, and once you know how common that is, it'll be easier to just be more flexible. So first, what I do is, when I'm reviewing my caseload, I create a simple caseload tracker, so it's nothing fancy. It's just on Google Sheets, or you can use Excel, whatever works for you. I have the student names, their locations, their classrooms, their IEP dates, the service minutes and the goals that I'm working on. And I I color coded by school, like my life depends on it, so I know exactly how many students I have in what classroom and at what school. And this also kind of helps me plan my schedule when I am doing that at the end of week one or week two. And then it's easy to kind of spot overlaps or, you know, some scheduling challenges. So it'll always be a draft schedule at first, and the only guarantee in school based OT is that there will be a shift in your schedule by week two or week three, even at some point. So I also use digital tools like Google Calendar, so I plug in my schedules, and then always leave some buffer time for, you know, travel time, makeup sessions, evaluations that will just fall in your lap without any prior notice. And then I think recurring reminders has what helped me the most to stay organized. So I set up my IEP due dates, my progress report timelines, and then I have recurring reminders for all of these at least a week or two in advance. So it's not an ugly surprise when it just when it's time for the IEP,
Jayson Davies
yeah. Regarding the Google Calendar, do you invite teachers when you set up that recurring you know, every Monday at 830 for Jason, do you invite the teacher, or do you prefer not to have the teacher on that? Because I could see both
Krupa Kuruvilla
reasons. Yeah. So actually, that depends on the teacher. So some of them are really tech savvy, and they would love to have that information on their Google Calendar. A lot of the teachers are still old school. They might not even check the invite for the entire school year. So in addition to adding them to Google Calendar, I also like to give them my schedule and paper, because some teachers just prefer that. And when I go into the classroom, I see that pinned on the board like 830 in the morning, all right, Johnny, it's time for ot so I think you have to weave your way around the way others work as well, because it's truly a team effort when it comes to that,
Jayson Davies
yeah, yeah. I tried doing the invited teacher to the Google, you know, invite, yeah. And I kind of kind of shot myself in the foot sometimes, because if you don't update that Google Calendar, if you like, say you have an IEP and you don't delete that, or if you don't move it on your calendar, or something, I have had teachers trying to track me down and be like, hey, 830 it's Johnny's time. Where are you? And, yeah, so if you're going to invite teachers, you got to be on top of your of your own calendar. So, Oh, for sure. Yeah, for sure. All right, we're going to take our first quick break, and when we come back, we're going to start talking a little bit about collaborating with teachers. All right, and we are back, and I want to dive in with Krupa now about communication and collaboration. So Krupa, what are some communication tips that you have had, or that you've used that help you to coordinate with teachers, psychologists and all the other providers that we work with.
Krupa Kuruvilla
So like I said before, and I just want to drive home the fact the school based OTs that communication is kind of the glue that holds your school based treatment together, and being a good therapist is not. Just about the therapy itself. It's about how well you're working with everyone involved in the care of that student. So you have to be clear, you have to be consistent and make sure you're on the same page, not just about your goals and your treatment for the student, but even things like scheduling or any modifications that might be needed. So it's, you know, sometimes, again, like I said, tailor your communication according to how your audience would receive it. So don't wait for a problem to communicate how, you know, send out a quick email, maybe have a brief meeting or just a quick chat. Just keep the lines of communication open so we can address needs as they arise, and then you can work on simple questions like, how's that plan working so far? Do you need anything from me? And one thing that I've learned to do over the years is that, like teachers appreciate really short updates. And other service providers like SLP psychologists, they may want more in depth information, so try to keep things and your updates relevant to each person's role, so everyone feels heard and understood. Everyone, just like you, is juggling multiple things. And I think we need to take that into consideration and be mindful of that. I think one really good way. I just want to state an example of how a shared Google doc helped an SLP and I, we were co treating the student, and we were seeing him two times a week. One time was an individual session, and the second one was a co treat session. So this SLP and I, instead of waiting for some time, you know, to find each other and talk about what happened. We had a shared Google Doc, and we had our treatment notes on there, so she knew what exactly it was that worked with the student when I saw him for ot on that Monday, and then I knew how he responded to strategies or whatnot in speech on Tuesday, and when we co treated him on Thursday, we were on the same page. So I think just having a simple thing like a shared doc went a long way,
Jayson Davies
absolutely. And you know, I was reviewing your your school based ot Pocket Guide, as we were kind of planning for this, something that you've got over at total report. And one thing within your initial checklist is actually emailing parents. I just want to talk just briefly about that and ask you, like, how important is that communication with with parents, from your standpoint, and what are some of the things that you do to kind of keep that communication up?
Krupa Kuruvilla
I think building rapport with families is so essential, and it's such it's so less talked about, I think it sets the tone for such a strong collaborative year. So I love to do that by starting by reaching out early to them, you know, within the first couple weeks, just a quick introductory email or a phone call, or it could even just be a note sent home in the student's backpack, and just make it a point to introduce yourself, share a little bit about, you know, what you're going to be working on, and just be really warm and be clear. I don't drive, you know? I don't dive straight into goals or concerns. I think, you know, just having a very warm introductory chat, it shifts the conversation from here's what I'm going to do to let's do this together. So ask them what they see at home. Ask them what their hopes are for the school year, for their student, for their child, and I think that goes a really long way in meeting families where they are. So for me, I just want them to feel comfortable, and I want them to know that they can count on me to communicate and to genuinely listen, because that builds a really strong foundation for teamwork.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, absolutely. And reaching out to the parents is always I've never regretted reaching out to the parent. I've regretted not reaching out to a parent before, but I've never regretted actually reaching out to a parent. Yeah, going back to a little bit of the collaboration. And as you know, many of us as school based ot practitioners, we have many school sites, sometimes three, sometimes 12, that we have to attend to. So how do you handle sometimes limited workspaces or shared spaces that you might have to use because no one has an OT room or Yeah? How do you handle that?
Krupa Kuruvilla
I think the limited or the shared workspace challenge is, like every school based OTs rite of passage, it has to happen to you. I think the two main keywords that I would use to address this is just be creative and be adaptable. So one thing that has really helped me is having a rolling cart of my therapy materials. So I make sure that I have a well packed therapy bag or a rolling cart where I keep, you know, some of my fine motor stuff and some sensory tools, and just keep things organized, keep them in clear Ziploc bags or in clear bins and folders. So that's kind of your ot on the go and embrace the idea that the office doesn't have to be a traditional office. I have worked in tiny closets. I have worked in empty classrooms with no furniture. I've worked in hallways. I've worked in the NPR room. So just having those extra supplies with you and being flexible to having a functional workspace. I think you just have to maximize whatever's available to you. And the next thing again, you know, it's coordination, collaboration with teachers, with other service providers, you can sometimes work in the classroom without disrupting the classroom routine. I had a couple teachers who would love for me. They would just give me a quiet corner in their classroom, and I was able to work with students there. I was even able to work in libraries sometimes. So I would talk to the librarian, ask her for times where classes would not be attending library. And then I would take a small room, you know, just take up some space in the library. I think if you speak with the related service providers who have an office, which are typically the psychologists and the SLPs. It's all about availability and timing. They might not be at that school every day of the week, so that factor also plays into your scheduling. Let's say the SLP is at this elementary school three days a week, I can plan on being there the other two days a week. So I can use the room, so you can share the workspace with other providers. And what I would like to do is just have the schedule of occupancy so nobody's double booked. So let's say Vanessa the SLP is using the room on Mondays, Krupa the OT is using it on Tuesdays. We have a psychologist using it on Wednesdays, and there will be changes, of course, so you have to be flexible, but that's another idea that you can implement for a limited or shared workspace.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, and sometimes maybe you do have to be there on the SLP day, and there's usually some other space that you can find and you know to do that evaluation that you need to get done before tomorrow's IEP. So yeah, speaking of moving toward IEPs and whatnot, we're going to talk about evaluations in just a minute and protocols. But before we do that, I want to talk just about documentation. And you know, documentation is important. We have progress reports, daily notes, keeping track of IEP timelines. What are some brief tips that you like to utilize yourself and share related to documentation.
Krupa Kuruvilla
So this might sound really strange to some of the listeners, but I love documentation, and it's it's the foundation of my entire business model. It's this never ending task, but it's essential, and my system is almost part routine and part tech. So it's a whole lot of time management, to be honest. So for any kind of documentation, I feel like a little bit of structure goes a long way. So just having templates for daily notes, for your progress notes, for your evaluations, so you're not reinventing the wheel every single time you have to do one of those for, let's say for daily notes, I just keep a simple log of my sessions, so I would have the student's name, the frequency, the date that I'm treating them on. Just have the goals that you're working on, what tools were used, what progress you saw, were there any setbacks? It's nothing fancy. It's honestly just a regular running document that I update weekly when I see the student for OT
Jayson Davies
and so do you create like a separate document? Sorry, really quickly. Do you create like a separate Google Doc for each student and just kind of keep that as a running document?
Krupa Kuruvilla
Yes, I do that, and I do it by school. So then I have everything in, like this elementary school, there's a folder with all my students in here, and then that way, when it's time for progress reports, you already have a clear record of everything that you've been working on, and you can see whether the student is progressing. You can see the weekly list of tools that were being used, what was successful, what was not, any accommodations that worked. Trust me, data collection is a breeze with this process. And then when it comes to progress reports, I kind of track everything on a weekly or a monthly basis, so nothing falls through the cracks. And then I recommend reaching out in advance or reaching out earlier to teachers or other team members if you need any information, so you're not scrambling to get any information last minute. And of course, for IEP timelines rely heavily on digital reminders, Google calendars, my best friend, IEP meeting dates, progress report deadlines, evaluations that are coming up, and set recurring reminders because you want to avoid that last
Jayson Davies
minute panic, yeah, yeah, or the last minute not realizing that you didn't get invited to the IEP and had to figure out, oh, the IEP is actually today, at 10am you mentioned like really a enjoying documentation, but really leaning on an organization. And and a little bit of tech. You just really highly spoke about the organization that you put into play, and you briefly talked about the tech being Google Docs, Google everything. Are there any other like simple tech tips that you use, that others can use relatively simply, or even other programs they use? It sounds like you're really ingrained in Google, but yeah, any other tips?
Krupa Kuruvilla
Honestly, it's whatever works and whatever is really simple. I have seen some service providers use project management software like Trello or I think there was one simple note, Evernote, there was an Evernote. But sometimes I feel like using those could also complicate things a little bit, because you have so many things to keep up with, so it's whatever works for you. Ultimately, yeah, and
Jayson Davies
I think you also have to be careful if you're going to do go that route and use Trello or Evernote or or any of the many platforms out there. Now you got to be careful with with HIPAA and FERPA, and make sure that you know you're not putting information in there that might be constituted as violation. What's nice typically about using Google Drive is that most districts at this point are a Google program. Or you might be sitting here saying, I don't use Google, I use Microsoft, because that's what the District uses, and kind of the same thing. Then you can do everything in Microsoft that you can do in Google, but it's likely that your school has a contract with either Google or Microsoft that basically protects all the information that every teacher, every OT, every SLP, puts into that document. So that's kind of why I also kind of suggest staying with whichever it is Google or Microsoft that you're right,
Krupa Kuruvilla
whatever the district's using, yeah, yeah. One
Jayson Davies
tip that I like to do is, actually, I don't know if you've tried this, but I like to use text replacement. And so what I can do, at least on a Mac, and I'm sure you can do it on a Windows PC as well, but you can basically use auto correct to type in something very short, like an acronym, and then it'll replace it with the full word. So, like, I'm just gonna use IEP as an example. Say I actually wanted to write out Individualized Education Program. I could write IEP too, and my computer would just automatically turn it into the entire writing so I've actually done that for entire templates. And so I'll just write like, t, e m1 and then if I type in T e m1 on my computer, it'll write out a paragraph template, and I just have to go and fill in the blanks. So yeah,
Krupa Kuruvilla
fun stuff. That's amazing for time management too. You'll end up saving so much time if you do that,
Jayson Davies
yep, yeah, it's, it takes a little bit. You can find a Google video on it, or reach out to reach out, and we'll, we'll figure out how to make it happen. So that was great ideas for documentation. Do you ever use Google Forms or Microsoft forms, or whatever for for either data collection, or, I know some people use it for notes. Have you ever tried
Krupa Kuruvilla
that, and it honestly worked for me when I was on the go, because I would have this bookmark just tapped on, you know, my phone, and then I would just quickly input information, because then it's time stamped, so it's so easy to keep track of,
Jayson Davies
yeah, yeah, I agree. I've done it for that, and then one of the things that I've done is used it just to, like, collect data from a teacher, whether it's like an occupational profile that you send out to the teacher, or just data collection on a goal or something I don't know, like you said earlier, it's really like knowing about your teacher. Some teachers would like a Google Form. Other teachers don't want anything to do with technology, and it's much better to talk to them in person. Yeah, all right. Another very important aspect of school based occupational therapy is testing protocols, all the materials that we have to deal with, equipment. How do you manage all those different tools that we have to kind of keep track of as a school based ot practitioner,
Krupa Kuruvilla
again, it's all organization. It comes down to how you're keeping a running inventory of all the things that you have, your therapy, materials, your equipment. It's a juggling act, for sure, but it's all about creating a system that works for you and that's easy to access. So I'm a huge fan of portable solutions, like I said, so I just use small, easily transportable bags or totes that hold the essentials. I label everything clearly, so this is something that I would carry from one site to another, but there's fewer, larger items that I may not need every day or I may not need at every site, like, let's say, a mat or a therapy ball or a weighted blanket. Then I just stock these items at the sites them that I am going to be at. But when it comes to the basic, fine and sensory, sensory tools, it's like Play Doh, clothespins, tongs. You know, these are versatile. They cover a wide range of activities, so I make sure I always have a small selection of these with me. Yeah, for testing protocols. If you're working in a district with other OTs, it's almost always going to be that you're sharing these protocols with others. So it's important to kind of have a calendar of who needs, what protocol, when. So I think a shared Google Calendar between therapists was what really worked for us at many of the school sites that I was at, because we were sharing all these assessments and the tools that we needed. So if you could have, I always keep extra protocols with me, though, because there's certain things that you can test even without having the whole bag with you, like I don't need to have, you know, a specific thing from, let's say, the B OT, which I can use with, you know, just the materials that I have. And then, when it comes to protocols, just make sure you always have, you know, an abundance with you, because it's so easy to just run out of protocols, and then you're kind of scrambling to place an order to get more. So I always make sure that I have what I need. Again. You can track all this on, you know, a spreadsheet, or however you feel best with your team of OTs working with you, and just have a running inventory of equipment, what you need to replenish, what might need repairs. So these are things that we kind of need to monitor on a monthly basis, and that really helped keeping me on track
Jayson Davies
when it comes to protocols. How have your teams managed it when you're at a district that has, you know, one bot or maybe 1m fund kit for several therapists? Have you all used like a checkout system? Or is it just kind of everything's housed at one location, and if you go and look for it, then you find it. If not, you reach out to figure out who has it. How have you done that?
Krupa Kuruvilla
So we did both. Actually, we did have limited materials in many of the districts that I was at, so everything would be stored at the district office. And then we had a checkout calendar. So, you know, let's say group is checking out the bot on certain dates, and that's when having your evaluations planned in advance also helps, because then you can plug in your name for those dates. You know that I'm going to check it out on July 5, or I need it on August 1, and then it's almost always going to happen that the two of you need the bot at the same time, or there's multiple therapists needing it. So I think it's all a matter of, you know, clear communication, or just maybe even sharing it on the same day. Kind of you do it in the morning, and, you know, the other ot can do it in the afternoon, just drive by and drop it off at our school site. That's true collaboration and teamwork, it is. It's just how we get things done.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, yeah, very cool. All right, we're going to take our final ad, and when we come back, we're going to talk a little bit about Medi Cal billing as well as some clinical decision making as a school based ot practitioner. All right, we are back, and we've got a few more segments that we want to close out with Krupa. In closing, a nice little fun and reflective closer in just a bit. But first, let's talk a little bit about Medicaid, or Medi Cal, as we often call it here in California. And districts. You know, some districts do do Medicaid, others find it cumbersome and they just don't do it. But from your perspective, how do you stay on top of Medicaid billing or district requirements without getting overwhelmed.
Krupa Kuruvilla
Yeah, so I've only had to do medical billing in two of the districts from all that I've worked in, and I've learned that the key to staying on top of them is just breaking things down into manageable steps and just staying ahead of your deadlines. So first of all, you need to have a solid understanding of the billing and the documentation requirements, so don't be afraid to ask questions. Talk to other OTs, talk to the district's billing coordinator, whoever you need to, and make sure that you have exactly what's needed, whether it's the proper codes, the documentation format, or any other specific forms that you might need, and to keep all of that from becoming overwhelming, just schedule dedicated blocks of time each week to focus extensively on that. That way it doesn't sneak up on you, or it doesn't pile up unexpectedly. So you know the requirements, you know what's needed, and you have a dedicated block of time every week to work on that.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, I again, just love, like, I don't know you and I work very, very similarly in the way that we block off time, and I did the same thing on my calendar. Like, even if I don't have a specific evaluation that I want to work on, I You can bet every friday from eight to 10am I have a block that says evaluations. Because, you know, my sessions are done for the week, and I just want to reserve that time for evaluations, or on Wednesdays, at 3pm once kids are left, I have a block for billing and for writing notes. And it sounds like you do very similar practice absolutely all right. Now. Now this is going to be a fun one, and I think people are really going to appreciate hearing how you do this, because as school based ot practitioners, you know, we talked about the documentation, about kind of keeping organized, but another system that we sometimes need to be put be putting in place, even if we don't always think about it as a system, as I think you probably will, is the type of services that we provide, and so what do you use, or how do you kind of go about managing or what tips do you have for when it comes to deciding what type of services maybe a student will get? Do you have a system in place, or is it very individualized, and just kind of go with what the evaluation says. Or how do you manage that? Great
Krupa Kuruvilla
question. So I start off by looking at the student's current level of functional independence and how their challenges are impacting their participation in the school day, because that's the whole premise of school based ot services. So ask yourself whether you see the student, are they able to access their education with just a few strategic accommodations, or do they actually need hands on intervention to build foundational skills? And to do that, you have to look at multiple data points. Look at their IEP goals, get teacher input, have classroom observations, and of course, your direct assessments and the results of your evaluations. And then if you see that a student is making progress, or could generalize skills, which is check ins, or, you know, some strategy sharing, then consultative support might be the way to go. But if you do see students who are struggling with fine motor tasks like handwriting or, you know, just coloring or other fine motor skills or sensory regulation or anything that's limiting their ability to learn or to keep up with their peers, that's an indication that more direct or incentive intensive therapy might be needed. And I think what's also important to consider here is how much support the student has in the classroom. So some kids might, you know, they might be thriving with a teacher who is very familiar with sensory strategies, and she's already used to implementing all these things in her classroom. And others might not be the same way, so you have to take that into consideration as well. And ultimately, I think what's important to remember is that it's not about doing more or doing less. It's just about what's meaningful and sustainable for the student and needs can change. You might be seeing a student for direct services, but you know, they might transition to consult in the middle of the year, or even vice versa. So I think just keeping that, just staying responsive and collaborative with the team, will help you determine that.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, and what would you do in this case, when you, I'm sure you've experienced this in the middle of the school year, you get a student, and it could be maybe they have consult on their IEP. Maybe they have twice a week on their IEP. But either way, you think, maybe that's not quite the most appropriate way or the most appropriate service that they should be getting. Let's say their IEP isn't for six months from now. What might you do to kind of maybe bring this to be more aligned with the services that you think the student needs.
Krupa Kuruvilla
So you definitely start off with what is on the IEP. And I think what's going to back up your decision, if you think differently, is data collection. So just collect a lot of data, like I said in your daily notes, you know, talk about all the strategies that you're using. Talk about things that are working. You know, tools that are working are not working, whether the student is making any progress. And I think that is going to be the deciding factor on whether you want to change services either way.
Jayson Davies
Perfect. Would you, let's go with that same six month timeline? Would you wait for the next IEP? Would you try and hold an addendum? Or would you even consider an addendum?
Krupa Kuruvilla
If it is a student who needs more intensive therapy, I definitely wouldn't wait the six months I would want to jump in sooner rather than later.
Jayson Davies
I think that's a good rule of thumb, especially if you're going to the more intensive. Yeah, I could see why waiting if you're going to go less restrictive or more, yeah, less restrictive, especially considering addendums, can take a lot of time, and then you're going to have to convince everyone that the student needs less services. It's typically easier to go from less to more than it is to go from more to less. So I agree, good idea. All right, when it comes to planning both therapy and assessments, a little bit here we are very crunched for time. So how do you go about planning for your assessments? Most of us have. You know, 60 days to complete an evaluation. How do you go about planning for for assessments when you have all your other services that still need to get done and all your other notes that still need to get done?
Krupa Kuruvilla
So when it comes to planning for assessments, the key is just stay organized early. Stay two steps ahead. So review all your pending assessments at the beginning of each month. Just map them out by date. Keep a running list of things like referral dates. IEP timelines, because I know it's different in each state and school. Specific expectations might differ as well, I would say, build in a lot of buffer time. Some assessments might always take longer than what you have anticipated. You know, it could just be simple things like coordinating with the teacher. Maybe the teacher forgot, or the student is absent that day, or the student is just having an off day, and they might, you know, you might not get accurate results from your testing, or just you don't have a room to perform your evaluation, so you do need to build in a lot of buffer time, and also consider the students needs, so their age, their attention span, just their sensory profile, whether they do well at the beginning of the day, whether they need some time to settle in, and you know you would see them in the afternoon. I think these are all factors that you need to consider when you're planning your assessments, and you're often balancing multiple campuses too. So just make sure you have a well stocked assessment back make sure you have protocols and a lot of snacks. To be honest,
Jayson Davies
don't always get a lunch time. You gotta have snacks for both you and sometimes for the kids too. Yeah, you were, once upon a time, a newer school based ot provider. And I know now you work with various school based ot practitioners, some experience, some that are newer. In what you've seen, how long does it take a newer school based ot practitioner to complete an evaluation, whether it's from your own experience or from what you've seen, but I'm talking about from like referral to maybe the point that the report is ready to go to the IEP team and be reported on, what is your experience or what you've seen been when it comes to needing time.
Krupa Kuruvilla
So I definitely spend a lot of time from the referral on classroom observations. I try and observe the student at different times of the day in different environments, not just the classroom, but also the cafeteria or during PE or on playground equipment. So I think those building in the time for those observations, it takes definitely a couple hours, and then the standardized testing takes a minimum of an hour, depending on how the student is doing. But I like to keep, you know, buffering time for at least an hour, and then just, you know, conversations with the teacher, with other service providers, and then your whole report writing. So I think you need to kind of keep, I would say at least four to six hours per student. Yeah, conservatively, it could be more, it could be less, but that's just how much I like to keep in mind.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, similar here. I think newer school based practitioners can even, you know, sometimes closer to eight hours when they're first getting the hang of it, but four to six hours seems to be in the range. Again, you and I are both California based, and so I know in other states it changes, but yeah, four to six hours because, like you said, I mean, it can take you two hours just getting the observations and a standardized evaluation, or even a non standardized evaluation done, and so it takes up time. Yeah, definitely. All right, earlier we touched on com, on parent communication. At the beginning of the school year, you said, how you like to, you know, get out an email early on, introduce yourself, maybe share a little bit about what you're doing with the student. But as we know, school based ot practitioners is not always or it's not just about the beginning of the school year. We've got to do progress reports, and sometimes we just want to keep in touch with parents in general. So how do you go about kind of continuing that communication?
Krupa Kuruvilla
So I'm a big believer in steady communication, whether it comes to the IDT or families, and like I mentioned earlier, just always ask them how they prefer to communicate. Not everyone would want a phone call or an email. You know, sometimes they just want a brief check in, and that's fine. So just once you know that for each family, I think it will create a very steady rhythm. It might be monthly, might be quarterly, and then when you're giving these updates in the way they find most appropriate or convenient for them, just try to make the updates feel a lot more personal and positive. So let's say, even if little Johnny is struggling with his cutting, when I'm giving an update, I'll say we're working on cutting. But. Guess what? He is able to hold the paper with his non dominant hand, you know, so much better than he did before. So try and make it positive, because parents do want to feel encouraged, and you will be providing them updates with progress reports, and, you know, annual IEPs, but these little check ins, that's what keeps them encouraged and engaged, and I think frame things in a strength based way, just, you know, sprinkle in small news when you you know, sometimes I'm just walking across campus, or I'm leaving school, and I spot a parent, and I just wave and I say, like, hey, Jane rocked her ot session today, and that was sometimes more than enough, you know, just to carry them through the next few weeks just knowing that OT is not just about updates on paper or in meetings, you know, but even just like a friendly check in or just a call out that I think they appreciate that a lot more sometimes than formal check ins, you know, you have your progress reports, you have IEP meetings, but I think this kind of partnership is so much more important to them. And then I also try to include visuals, if possible. So let's say, you know, Mother's Day is coming up, and then, you know, I'll have the kids work on a Mother's Day card for them, and just take it home so they can actually see, you know, what their kids are working on. And this kind of makes the therapy world in school a little more tangible for them, because it's so different from clinics, where you can actually maybe go in and see what they're working on. You can do that in a school so just try to make their up. You know, your updates more tangible when you can. They really appreciate it a lot. Yeah,
Jayson Davies
yeah. And, you know, I think that kind of brings us around full circle. We've really started with summer at the beginning of this episode, what you can do to kind of plan for the start of the school year. Then we dove into the actual start of the school year and how you can organize and plan. There. We talked about kind of some clinical decision making and keeping in touch with people, building rapport. And that kind of brings us back to the end of the school year a little bit. And I don't want to dive back into everything that we started with at the beginning of the podcast. But I do have one question for you, because I do get this question periodically, and it's about es y and determining who gets es y. And so I just wanted to get your take a little bit on in the districts that you've worked with who, I mean, the OT practitioner should always have a take on who gets es y, especially for OT, right? But how have you experienced that process within districts about debating who gets OT, E, S y?
Krupa Kuruvilla
So I honestly have been lucky, because my recommendations have always been taken into consideration when it comes to E, S Y, unless, of course, it was the parents who had a different opinion. But I think what we need to keep in mind for ESI is that you're not trying to build new skills. You're trying to maintain or, you know, just keep up with what the student has been working on for the rest of the year anyway. So just keeping that in mind, I think, is important. And just to make sure that the goals that you're working on, you're clear on your goals. And again, what's going to help you drive this decision home is your data that you collect throughout the year. So again, we're coming back to, you know, just look at your data. Look at the progress that they're making, look at how fast or how slow, look at, you know, the tools that they need. And I think that's going to help you make a clear decision on with students who feel need ESY services,
Jayson Davies
yeah. And I think kind of just tagging on your data collection Right? Like, one thing that I like to do is look at data collection right before and right after a break, whether it be like the winter break or even spring break, just kind of seeing if there was regression over that break, or if there was improvement or just kind of stagnant. So a good way to use that data, all right. Krupa, I think that wraps up our big portion of this podcast. But I do have some kind of reflective pieces here that I want to ask you, that I think some people are really going to appreciate here that are listening. And so we'll start with this one first, and we'll keep this kind of brief and move along today. But if you could go back and give yourself advice for your first year as a school based OT, what would that advice be?
Krupa Kuruvilla
That's a great question. I would have so much to tell myself, but if I had to pick something really important, I would tell myself, is give yourself permission to grow and breathe and just prioritize connections over perfection. I think what we need to know is being an effective school based OT is not just about the perfect treatment plans, but it's about relationships. And you're going to get lost literally and figuratively. You know, campuses are confusing case law. Can be huge, but you'll figure it out, and over time, you'll find your rhythm, you'll find your pace, you'll find your people. So just trust the process, because even on your hardest days, you're making a difference probably more than you realize. And I think if you hold onto that, then the school year will be a breeze.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, you're making a difference in connections over perfection. I like both of those awesome what's one tool, checklist or system from your, you know, ot resources, from years of being a school based ot practitioner now that you couldn't live without I think I might know the answer to this, but I want to hear
Krupa Kuruvilla
it. Can I can I give you two Sure? The first one is definitely my school based ot pocket guide. It has my checklist, you know, it keeps me organized. It gives me everything at a glance, what I need to have at the beginning of the school year, the middle of the school year, end of the school year. It talks about documentation, it talks about equipment, resources, everything. It has exit checklists, indicators for ot referrals. So even though I've worked in schools for over 10 years, you know, sometimes just having that quick reminder or a quick visual, it kind of reinforces your decisions, and that really that has been a lifesaver for me. And I think the second one that I would go with is my caseload. At a glance, I think that's my holy grail when it comes to just, you know, it has all my students, their goals, the service minutes and any sensory supports or special considerations that they're using. So, you know, it's just easy when I look at it and I know immediately Bob likes to work while he's bouncing on the therapy ball. Okay, perfect. You know, I'm ready for my sessions now. So it's just a quick reference, and I update it every month or every quarter when things change. But I think these two are my hacks that I couldn't go through school based ot without
Jayson Davies
Absolutely I thought you were gonna go a little more general and just say Google Docs and Google Drive, everything Google all at once, but you went a little bit more specific about your particular tools within Google. We'll go with that. All right. All right. Question number three, what is your favorite ot hack that saved you so much time and sanity over years of being a school based ot practitioner, I'm sure you just you know when you just mentioned your caseload. But another one,
Krupa Kuruvilla
another one. I love stationery, so that has been a lifesaver for me. I use color coded sticky notes or tabs in my planner or in my binder. So I'll have, let's say yellow for IEPs, green for assessments, you know, orange for progress reports. So when I just open up to, let's say September, I know I have three assessments coming up and I have two progress reports to write, you know, just at the top of my head. But I think those color coded sticky notes have been a lifesaver. So that would be my biggest hack that you'll see. My binder is, like, twice its size because I have so many notes or tabs in there, but it's truly a lifesaver, and it's literally information at a glance.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, I like that. I i have mostly moved to digital now, but I still color code my folders in Google Drive and my notion page, for any of you who use notion, I like to have colorful blocks. And back in the day, I did the same thing with binders. I would have a research binder, and I would color code like research related to fine motor research, related to sensory research, related to this and that. And you can bet they were color coded so fully understandable. All right. Last question here, and that is, if you could snap your fingers right now and change something about school based occupational therapy overnight, what would that one thing be?
Krupa Kuruvilla
Caseload caps, without a doubt.
Jayson Davies
Wow, you were on that you knew exactly what you wanted to say that caseload
Krupa Kuruvilla
You can tell I've been thinking about this a very long time.
Jayson Davies
So my question for you is, because I hear this a lot too, caseload caps. I don't know how much time we have for this, but define go a little bit further into that when you say caseload cap. Do you have a particular number in mind?
Krupa Kuruvilla
40 would be a dream. 45 I can work with
Jayson Davies
40 to 45 Okay, second, trying to keep it realistic here. Yeah, no, I understand, uh second follow up, why not workload instead of caseload? Or do you see them as kind of being similar or interchangeable?
Krupa Kuruvilla
Well, it kind of plays your caseload, kind of plays into your workload. So that is why I mentioned caseload in particular. But I do want to mention that your caseload versus your calculator has helped me a great deal, and I have recommended that to over 100 OTs, if I'm being conservative in my number, and it's been really helpful. Yeah, so I wanted to point out,
Jayson Davies
yeah, I mean, and I go back and forth on this all the time, because a caseload is just simpler to a caseload is easier to calculate, it's easier to track. You can track it in just a few seconds, right? You can look at your caseload and you can see how many kids on your caseload. A workload is definitely more complex than that. It takes, you know, you really to do it right. You've got to do a two week time study to really understand your caseload. And so that's why I get conflicted, because in my perfect world, it would be a workload cap. And I think it would be a workload cap in the sense that the caseload should be no more than 18 to 20 hours of direct therapy or of therapy for the caseload. But again, I know that's trickier to kind of track over time, and so I understand the caseload side too. So yeah, I'm glad we have that little three minute discussion right now. Awesome. All right, Krupa, well, it has been such a pleasure for those of you who are listening to this and it sounded wonderful. I just want you to know that Krupa and I endured some technology issues today, and hopefully you had no idea about any of that until I said it right now. So Krupa, thank you so much for endearing some technology issues. Thank you so much for being here and really quickly before we say goodbye for now, or maybe I should say not goodbye, but you know until next time, where can people learn more about you and what you're doing.
Krupa Kuruvilla
My business is called Total report, and I have a lot of the templates that I did speak about in this podcast, and also a lot of resources, handouts, anything that might help school based OTs. You could go to www dot, totalreport, dot, O, R, G, and my you'll find my email there. If you just want to send me an email, ask me questions more than happy, just feel free to reach out.
Jayson Davies
Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for being here. Really appreciate it your time and energy, and I look forward to staying
Krupa Kuruvilla
in touch. Yeah, thanks for having me. This was fun.
Jayson Davies
Oh, right, that is a wrap on episode 181 of the OT school house podcast. I want to give a big thank you to Krupa for joining us on today's episode and sharing all of her insights in how to have an amazing school year, especially that start to the school year, which kind of sets the pace for the entire rest of the school year. Thank you also for spending your time with us. I know that this is the middle of summer when this episode comes out, so it means a lot that you're taking time during your off contract days to spend time here on the OT school house podcast. We really appreciate it. And if you found this episode helpful, if you find all of or any of the episodes of the OT school house podcast helpful, we would love for you to also join us at the OT school house, back to school conference. It's going to be coming up this August, 23 and 24th live online. And you can also catch the replays if you can't attend live. And we do that every year. So if you're watching this episode later, you can expect a back to school conference to be popping up very soon in August. You can learn all about that over at ot schoolhouse.com/conference, also, if you have a moment, we'd love for you to review this podcast on Apple podcasts or Spotify. You can actually leave comments now on Spotify about specific episodes, and sometimes I go in there and and write a little reply. So be sure to do that. We love to hear from you. We love to hear what episodes you might want to hear in the future. If there's a specific speaker that you'd like to hear from, we really try to make those come to fruition. So whether it's building your systems or developing your skills or finding a supportive community, the back to school conference will be a great place for you, and this community is a great place for you right here on the podcast. So with that, until next time, keep doing amazing work for your students. I hope that you have a great back to school season, and we'll see you next time. Take care.
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