OTS 195: Understanding the Why in School-Based OT From a Parent's Perspective
- 9 hours ago
- 36 min read
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Welcome to the show notes for Episode 195 of the OT Schoolhouse Podcast.
Join us in this episode where Nicole Dahl shares her powerful journey as a parent navigating occupational therapy services for her son on the autism spectrum. She opens up about the challenges of understanding the "why" behind therapy activities and the frustration of disconnected communication between providers, teachers, and home.
Through Nicole's story, school-based OT practitioners gain invaluable insight into what parents truly need: clear explanations in plain language, collaborative communication between all team members, and practical strategies they can implement at home. She emphasizes that while the journey wasn't always smooth, consistent OT support—combined with strong parent education—transformed her son's trajectory from struggling in isolation to thriving as a high school senior and water polo team captain.
Ready to hear how better communication and parent partnership can make all the difference in a child's IEP journey? Listen now to gain perspective that will transform how you work with families and create lasting impact beyond the therapy session.
Learning Objectives
Understand the critical importance of communicating the "why" behind OT interventions to parents in accessible, non-clinical language to increase understanding and home carryover
Recognize the value of collaborative communication between school-based OT, outpatient providers, teachers, and parents to create cohesive support systems for students
Identify practical strategies for empowering parents as active IEP team members through education, consistent feedback loops, and actionable recommendations they can implement at home
Guest Bio
Nicole Dahl is a notable marketing leader whose efforts have helped launch companies onto the Inc. 5000 list, guided by a career rooted in both purpose and performance. Her personal journey as the mother of a son on the autism spectrum—now 18—has deeply shaped her perspective, informed by years spent navigating diverse therapeutic environments. That lived experience fuels her commitment to human-centered innovation and meaningful change. At Korro AI, where she currently serves as Vice President of Marketing, Nicole is driving change by empowering pediatric providers, caregivers, and the children they serve, ensuring every child is truly seen.
Quotes
“I know 100% we would not be where we are today without OT. A decade ago, I never would have imagined college tours and captain of the water polo team were possible for him.” – Nicole Dahl
“We undervalue how important simple communication is.” – Jayson Davies
“I didn’t understand the why behind everything they were doing. I’d say he can’t tie his shoes, and then I’d see him on a swing playing with Play-Doh and think… did she not listen to me?” – Nicole Dahl
“It’s coming from a point of love. When a parent keeps calling meetings or asking questions, it’s because you both have the same goal — to support the child.” – Nicole Dahl
“It wasn’t that he was ‘fixed.’ He was equipped. He had tools, and he understood himself.” – Nicole Dahl
Resources
👉Korro AI - AI-powered platform for pediatric therapy (OT, speech, PT) that captures data during gameplay, provides progress tracking, and includes parent portal features
👉University of Central Florida's Card Center - Resource for autism information and checklists
Episode Transcript
Expand to view episode transcript
Jayson Davies
Hello and welcome back to the OT school house podcast. This is episode 195 and I'm your host. Jayson Davies, today's conversation is truly special, and I think it's going to resonate with you in more ways than you might actually expect. We're speaking with Nicole Dahl, who is the Vice President of Marketing at Koro AI. You might have heard of it, but more importantly, for today's conversation, Nicole is a mother who spent years navigating the occupational therapy world alongside her son on the autism spectrum. Nicole's journey began over 15 years ago when her son was kicked out of multiple preschools, thus she and her family were thrusted into the world of IEPs, evaluations, therapy sessions and everything in between. She lived through the frustrations that many of the parents that we support right now are facing every single day, that disconnect between clinic and the classroom, the lack of communication between providers and the family, and that persistent question of, how is catching a ball in therapy going to help my son zip up his jacket. Fast forward 15 years, and her son is now a high school senior captain of the water polo team and preparing to jump out of an airplane with a Navy SEAL. That's a long way from learning to zip up his jacket, right? Well, in this episode, Nicole is going to help us by pulling back the curtain on what parents really need from us and what they want from us as school based ot practitioners, you'll share why communication matters more than we might actually realize how collaboration between both home and school made all the difference, and why educating the parents on the why behind our interventions can transform outcomes. This conversation is a very powerful reminder that our role extends beyond the student. We must support the parents, we must support the teachers, just as intentionally as we support the student, and we got to do this if we want to make that lasting change. So please help me in welcoming Nicole Dahl to the OT school house podcast. Let's dive in,
Amazing Narrator
hello and welcome to the OT school house podcast. Your source for school based occupational therapy, tips, interviews and professional development. Now to get the conversation started, here is your host. Jayson Davies, CLASI is officially in session.
Jayson Davies
Nicole, welcome to the OT school house podcast. It is such a pleasure having you here today to talk about your experiences as a parent of a student with occupational therapy as well as with an IEP. And I'm so happy to have you here.
Nicole Dahl
Thanks for being here. Absolutely. I'm happy to share and hopefully inspire some people and learn some fun stuff along the way.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, and you know, it's really interesting how you and I got connected. Never would have thought that you work with coro.ai and I'm sure you'll explain a little bit about that as we get going. This podcast is not about Koro AI, but we actually connected about you being a parent through our connection at Koro AI. So to get started, I would love to just let you kind of introduce how you fit into the world of occupational therapy, which is very different from all the other times I've ever asked that question.
Nicole Dahl
Yes, absolutely. So it kind of came full circle and backwards all at the same time. So I was introduced to core ot so I'm currently their VP of marketing, but really I fell in love with it from my personal experience. So I am a parent of a child on the spectrum, so I have the lived experience of being in and out of different therapeutic environments for over five years, solid in a private practice, and also school based as well. So we've gone through OT, pt, pt, feeding, speech, you name it. We've been there and done that,
Jayson Davies
yeah, and that is part of why I really wanted to have this conversation and and before we go way back in time to you know, when everything got started, I would love just to kind of hear an update from you about how your son's doing now, where he's at and how that's going.
Nicole Dahl
Oh, that'll get me crying right off the bat. I am so grateful for ot I know 100% we would not be where we are today without it. So he is currently a senior in high school. He for their last game he was captain of the water polo team. Tomorrow, he is jumping out of an airplane. What?
Jayson Davies
Oh my gosh, yes. So we, are we? Are we associating that with some, you know, vestibular seeking tendencies?
Nicole Dahl
It's more of like his open I never in a million years. Would I have guessed that he would even consider that? That's a whole different funny story. But we're an active Navy family, and so he's getting strapped to the back of a Navy SEAL like a spider monkey and and jumping out of a plane tomorrow, but, but, yes, he was the child who was sitting on top of the refrigerator as like a self soothing, I'm just cool up here type thing. But he's doing so well and looking at colleges and things like. That, and I never, you know a decade ago, would have imagined that's possible for Him.
Jayson Davies
That is awesome. That's fantastic. You love to hear like because I can only you know as an OT, as a parent, both, both of us, and we're going to go back right now, but like when you see your child when they're three, when they're five, when they're seven, it's sometimes hard to think what they're going to be like, you know, when they're 1516, 18. And I can only imagine how many times he has forced you to reconceptualize your perception of what he can do, what he wants to do, what he enjoys, what he doesn't enjoy. And as a newer parent, I'm looking forward to all that as well.
Nicole Dahl
Yeah. I mean, I would get asked, like, What's your goal for your son? And, you know, at that point, I was like, let's get out of the house without a meltdown, or let's get dressed and not fight what clothes we're wearing because they're uncomfortable. I mean, the goals back then were so different than they are now,
Jayson Davies
yeah, wow. All right, well, let's dive into that actually. And let's, you know, jump in that DeLorean, and head back 15 years or so. And when, like, did you first start to realize, you know what, hey, my son might need additional support. Or, hey, you know what they're he might not be neurotypical, and what was that point in your life like?
Nicole Dahl
So it was very different, I think, from the traditional journey we were at. So we had a hard go of it at first, because he kind of falls in between that line of, you know, standard symptoms and things like that that you would normally associate so he would be considered more on the like Asperger's spectrum of things, but he was diagnosed with ADHD and after he was kicked out of four different preschools because they said he was too much or wouldn't follow instructions, or would kind of be doing things for self soothing, of just not wanting to get off a swing and come inside when recess ends. So that was hard as a parent who was working full time saying, Okay, now we have to figure this out all over again and establish a new routine in a new place. But I was very lucky enough to find a school who in the mean in the kind of in that timeframe, I worked as a publisher, and so one of the schools advertising with me was actually a school for mostly disabilities, but they admitted children, what they can called role model children. And then so my son was admitted as a role model child. And then later the teacher was like, hmm, there's there's something else, something else here. Have you considered having him tested? And also, at the same point, I was developing a website for the University of Central Florida's card center, and going through the checklist of symptoms, I was like, This is my child.
Jayson Davies
Sounds familiar. Sounds familiar. Check,
Nicole Dahl
yep. So it was through the encouragement of the staff at his preschool that we then got on a wait list to get him tested. It took probably nine months to a year before we actually were able to get tested and get that diagnosis. And then I really think I was handed a Xerox sheet of paper that had been copied multiple times over. Of, here is autism, here's types of things you can expect. And then that was it. I was handed a referral to OT and there was no in between of, hey, what's next, or what is OT,
Jayson Davies
yeah, yeah. Can I ask really quickly that that evaluation process, that preschool, was this a public preschool, or was it a private preschool? And was the assessment done through like a medical model, or through more through the school.
Nicole Dahl
It was a private preschool, and then the referral was done at a medical clinic with a medical doctor, yeah.
Jayson Davies
Okay, so you you got this referral then, and you have a referral, sounds like for occupational therapy. I don't know if speech or anything else was involved, but were they then recommending you to actually, I guess, get services through the school, or were they recommending you reach out and go through insurance? Or how was that?
Nicole Dahl
So at first we it was a recommendation for outside private OT, and so I had submitted the paperwork to his school ahead of time, saying, you know, here's his diagnosis, here's what we do. And they were like, Okay, we'll get you on the calendar for an IEP meeting that probably took nine you know, if we're talking about the beginning of the school year system, where he's now in kindergarten, I don't think we had that initial meeting until the spring after you. The new year. So it took so three quarters of the year in, yeah. And during that time, you know, I kind of brushed it off that he was not liking school because it was a new transition, because his preschool was so amazing, but he did not want to go to school at all every day, it was a fight to get in the car and go. And I kind of trusted the process and said, you know, we're figuring this out. It's a new school, it's going to be okay. And then, come to find out, at the first parent check in, which had, you know, maybe several weeks had passed during school, the teacher was like, you know, I figured out a way for him to focus. And ever since then, it's been going better. And I'm like, Well, what, what do you mean? Like he's saying he does, like he's having a hard time, and so she had put him at a desk facing the wall by himself, isolated away from the classroom. Yeah, and that's how she got him to focus so, very inclusive, not very inclusive. He wasn't making friends. He had been kind of, you know, labeled, almost like a leper, like, oh, that child is, there's something going on with that child, because he's isolated away from everyone else. Wow.
Jayson Davies
Okay, and then it like you said you didn't end up getting that IEP until, you know, several months later, wow. Okay, before we dive into that AP process, I first want to ask you about your initial thoughts on occupational therapy. It sounds like to me that the first time you really heard of occupational therapy was when you got that referral. I mean, maybe you had heard of it, but this is the first time you really had to think about it. What were your initial thoughts when you heard about occupational therapy and maybe you did some initial research, like, do you recall?
Nicole Dahl
Yeah, I do, actually. So I had never heard of occupational therapy beforehand. I was never exposed to it. I didn't have any friends kids who had gone to it. So obviously, you know, looking online, I was like, Well, this is supposed to help with our daily life. This is supposed to help him, you know, work at handwriting to even kind of daily living goals of getting dressed, transitions in the day, things like that, to help things go smoother. So it kind of looked like this golden treasure trove of here's possibilities that can help and then, unfortunately, my experience in the beginning did not necessarily offer that interesting.
Jayson Davies
Okay, so let's dive into that then, and let's talk about some of those experiences. It's hard because, as you know from the experiences you have outside occupational therapy and school based occupational therapy, and throughout this podcast, I might ask you to clarify a little bit, just because it is a little overlapping, and I don't want to make you have to figure it all out all the time. But so I guess you know, as you dive into that confusion, where did that start? And was that it sounds like you probably started with outpatient before the IEP, because it took so long to get to the IEP. But correct me if I'm wrong and and go ahead, we
Nicole Dahl
started definitely with outpatient before we got the IEP implemented for in school and outpatient, I felt like they kind of just went off of a pre prescribed checklist, like, here's what we do for every child who has these goals. But it never felt like it was directly connected to my child. So nothing felt personalized. I often talk that we were, you know, given carry over homework that truthfully, felt like and sometimes I would even see like we're taking a piece of paper off of a stack that I'm sure every family got on their way out of the clinic that day. So it wasn't relevant to my child at all, nor was, you know, chances are it would probably get destroyed in the car before we even got home. And then I was left feeling like, Okay, I have this one five minute activity that I can do to help support my child through the week, but what else can I be doing in between? So a lot of the time I felt kind of frustrated and looking for answers that I didn't know exactly where to find or how to find to better support my child.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, and I can only imagine that being tough. Were you going basically once a week?
Nicole Dahl
We were going once a week to OT and then once a week for feeding or sorry to speech as well in the beginning.
Jayson Davies
Okay, so I can only imagine that is, you know, you're there for the let's just call it an hour, assuming, and you get that hour of time where your son is with the therapist, and then at the end of the hour, you're walking out with maybe a little general piece of paper, maybe some quote, unquote homework, per se, and then you're expected to come back next week with maybe that completed homework, and, you know, for the next session and and so you're for seven days, you're questioning what I'm. What the heck was it going on? What did they do? Is this working? I mean, how are you feeling?
Nicole Dahl
Yeah, that's exactly how it felt. And then I felt like, you know, even during the session, because they would go back, you know, into a room somewhere where all me and all the other parents were left sitting in the waiting room. Typically, that handoff was maybe no more of a two minute check in. Of, Hey, how are things going? Anything new this week? And you kind of had to have this pre script plan of, here's what we really struggled with at home. Or finally, you know, I was like, Hey, can I go back in the session with you guys? And they were like, Oh, well, that's like, really, we have the parent waiting room here, but I guess we could try, but you'll have to sit kind of on the floor in the corner, which I was fine with. But I would say things like, you know, he can't tie his shoes, and then I would see them him on a swing and catching a ball, or playing with Play Doh. And I was like, did she not listen to me? Because I said he can't tie his shoes, and now they're they're just playing. How is any of this supposed to help? I really didn't understand the why behind everything that they were doing, and I wish that had been explained to me as a
Jayson Davies
parent, trying to figure out which follow up I want to ask her. So obviously, you know, you came to love ot so things got better, and we'll get to that point. It sounds like you wish things were a little bit more collaborative. Communication was a little bit better. Did that eventually start to get better? Did it take, you know, multiple different therapists, multiple different, you know, clinics, or at what point did you start to transition from, you know, what? I don't understand how playing with Plato is supporting these goals to Okay. I start to understand
Nicole Dahl
it took being involved as a parent, and then we did have a great school therapist. Once we finally got involved with in school OT. We had also switched districts. We had moved in between, and our new ot in school had brought up things that I had never even considered, or had ever even kind of been discussed with me. So things like, you know, the teacher would say he's he's rocking and doesn't stay still all day. So then the OT would go in the classroom and say, Well, what's going on here? And come to find out the legs of his chair were uneven. So he would sit there and and teeter back and forth all day. And so the OT was like, okay, Mom, here's this little seat thing that he can sit on and kind of just wobble without making noise and a distraction. Would you be okay with getting that support in classroom 100% yes. Or, you know, in this particular classroom, the lights overhead buzz a little bit loud and can be a little distracting, you know, mom, would you be okay with, you know, getting a floor lamp for the classroom. If the teachers okay with that, yes, 100% are you kidding? I had never even considered that lighting was coming into play as a distraction. When the teacher would say things like, Oh, he's not focusing, or he's drifting off and staring into the the abyss, it was because he couldn't filter out that sound of the fluorescent lights to really be able to hear her over the lights.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, you know, I, as I listen to you really quickly. Like, the way that you're explaining things are the way that I feel. Like, oftentimes we should explain things, especially when we're talking to parents, but I think sometimes we try to get too smart sometimes, and like, use complex words and, you know, sensory processing and vestibular and proprioception and and all that. And it's nice to hear from a parent, like, just, you know, in layman's terms, like this is what they kind of want to hear from a therapist.
Nicole Dahl
Yeah, I wanted to hear real world, relevant insights for my child. So the provider would come and say, you know, what are your biggest struggles at home? Or what? You know, what goals do you have? And you know, after we got integrated with school, ot I was like, You know what I would love for Him, to be able to have a friend and to have someone that he can talk with at school, because otherwise it seems like he's really alone. And so the school of Tay was like, That's a great idea. I've got some other kids that I'm working with that I think a social group would be really valuable. So during lunch, I'm going to pull these kids and we're going to start a group of saying, hey, what's another child who maybe likes some similar things that you like, and practice those like reciprocal conversation skills back and forth, and that was a thing I had never even considered as a parent. I'm like, I know he's obsessed with sharks and dinosaurs. What? Where can we find those other children who are also obsessed with sharks and dinosaurs? Maybe ask like, which ones do you like? Or why? Yeah, but I very vividly remember the first time he asked me how my day was after practicing those reciprocal conversation skills. And it was jarring. And I had never realized that he had never asked me that before. Wow.
Jayson Davies
That really tugs at the heart strings a little bit when that happens on Yeah, that's awesome. So it sounds like we've got this occupational therapist in the schools. You've already mentioned them, kind of consulting with the teacher regarding the lighting, regarding the seating, as well. Now you've also mentioned a small group. It sounds like with, you know, working with you know, working with other students on social communication and social skills. Did you also, did your son ever have on his IEP individual pull out services with an occupational therapist? Yeah, he did. Okay. Very much. So okay, and then if I can, because I have a follow up, but I just want to get the the basis here, did he also have the occupational therapist ever actually go into the classroom to work with him individually?
Nicole Dahl
Yes, and that's where we kind of would see some of those things that hadn't necessarily been brought up as maybe a difficulty before. Is, you know, we would get feedback from the teacher, and then the provider would see it and from a different lens and say, Okay, let's try this, or even giving feedback to the teacher. Of, instead of saying, you know, time's up on this activity, come to the carpet. How to word things even a little differently. Of, hey, we're going to work on this for five minutes. That's okay. If you don't finish, you will have time later in the day to work on it, and then we're going to go to to the rug for story time, or just framing things a little differently so he didn't get caught up in the I'm supposed to finish this. I need to finish this, or I'm going, you know, it's going to be counted negatively against me, so I'm not going to go to the carpet and I'm going to sit here and finish working on my paper.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, yeah. And it sounds like you're the occupational therapist or occupational therapist that you know you you and your son have worked with over the years, but years have been very flexible, because one of the things that I've found is that, and the research backs this up, is that sometimes occupational therapists can be a little rigid, and the type of services that they provide, some therapists provide, or they prefer more that pull out model. Some prefer more pushing into the classroom. And it sounds like you've experienced, you know, kind of the gamut of that. And I guess my question here for you is, looking back at that, did you feel like one service was better than the other, or do you feel like it was something that needed at the right time, and that all the services you know, fit into a particular part? Does that? Does that make sense in the question?
Nicole Dahl
Yeah, it does. So I would say, from my lens, when things really started to click is once I got everyone talking together. So when I got the outside private, ot talking to the in school, ot talking to the teacher, I had requested, you know, for the next IEP meeting, can can you come to this? Or can we loop you in on the Zoom call? Because it's once we started talking together. That's when the biggest differences would get made, because the in school at ot would say, Okay, here's what we're working on here. So then the private ot would say, Okay, I hear that. Now we can work on this, and then I can give carryover skills for you to practice at home in between. So it wasn't just these, like, you know, little hour snippets two times a week when there's, you know, over 160 other hours in the week that nothing else is happening. Here's actually tangible things that I could be doing at home. And that's when the difference really got made is when I started understanding the why behind everything, and had skills that I could be working on at home to further their work.
Jayson Davies
How long did it take to get to that point? Because I know you experienced a lot of frustration, so how long did it take to get
Nicole Dahl
to that? It took a solid three years before we got to that point.
Jayson Davies
That's a lot of missed opportunities. It was, and
Nicole Dahl
it's huge. I mean, that's such a critical period in their life, too. And you know, there were times when a provider would leave on maternity leave, and they would say, you know, oh, we're just gonna hold his spot with this provider. Are you okay with waiting till she comes back on maternity leave. Yes, a horse of 100% we love her. Then she would decide not to come back. And then, so then we were put back on the wait list waiting for another provider. Or they'd say, you know, you can look for somewhere else to go. And then we'd try getting on a wait list somewhere else. So accessibility. Was also a huge part of that. In the meantime, too, trying to find a spot of somebody who had opening. You know, I learned both personally and professionally my work with coro, like there just aren't enough providers to handle the demand that's out there.
Jayson Davies
That is true, very true. All right, we're going to take a quick break, and when we come back, we're going to talk about more of that advocacy piece a little bit as well as you know how we can improve communication between parents and the parents. So we'll be right back. All right, we're back, and Nicole, I wanted to ask because in a previous conversation we had, you've mentioned that you've lived a few different places, and I can only imagine that moving while having a student on an IEP can be a little difficult, and so I wanted to ask you about that experience. Was it difficult, or was it seamless, and what made it better?
Nicole Dahl
Truthfully, I had a couple of years under my belt at that point, so I had learned my lessons that I need to speak up and almost, you know, get labeled as that annoying parent who's not going to go away right out of the gate. So that was the biggest lesson I had learned. Is, you know, you're your child's personal cheerleader. You're the one who's with them the most. So if anyone's going to speak up, it's, it's going to be you parents?
Jayson Davies
Yeah, I know. I completely agree with that. Like being on the inside right in the school, you almost get a little frustrated sometimes with parents who are like that. But when you take that step back and you realize, like this parent is simply trying to make sure that their student doesn't get forgotten, like you kind of understand it. And as a parent, I would absolutely do the same thing for my kids, like we have to stand up a little bit, just like as an occupational therapist, you've got to stand up for yourself in the school to make sure that you don't get forgotten as an employee in the school, and we're all trying to, at the end of the day, get the services and the support for the people that are important in our lives. And so yeah, I get it. Sometimes you feel a little defensive as a therapist when you have that parent who is calling an IEP every three six months, but from your perspective, right, you're just trying to get the best services for your student. So yeah, yeah, and it's coming from a point of
Nicole Dahl
love, by the way, whenever, when you have a parent that does that, it's and you guys both have the same goal to help and support the child. So it's a shared goal, but it's just figuring out, like, how are we communicating or not communicating what's happening behind the scenes? So there were times when they would say, you know, oh, this has actually started, and I just didn't know that it had started. Or my son didn't know that that's what that was, yeah, where it was not even, you know, he just thought he was meeting with another teacher at the school. But it wasn't said, Oh, this is your new in school occupational therapist. So when I would say, Have you started ot in school yet? He would be like, No. And then there was a time when I was like, Oh, well, you know, they said, Mrs. So and So was your new OT? Oh, yeah, her, yeah, I do meet her, yeah. So making sure things are explained as, like, super baseline, basic conversations,
Jayson Davies
and it's it's amazing, because in today's world, it is so simple to communicate, like you don't have to pick up a phone, you can do a quick email. We all have systems in place at the schools where we have, you know every single person and their mom's email on file that we can send a quick email and and whatnot. But it does take time. It does take energy, and it does actually take that initiative to say, You know what, something changed. It's not that big of a deal, but communicating this to the parent or to the teacher or to the outside provider, whoever it might be, really goes a long way. Like we undervalue how important a simple communication is.
Nicole Dahl
Just remember, like we're humans on the other end of it too. And, you know, and sometimes I don't even think parents know that that one provider could have 80 students that they're helping. So just keep that in context as well for parents of saying, you know, I hear you. I got your message. And it may even seem a little like combative to say I have 80 patients, but most parents don't know that. They may think you work with like, four or five patients, but if you don't have that inside lens, you might not understand why it's taking so long to get back to you.
Jayson Davies
Yeah. So that actually leads me on to a question about an IEP like being in an IEP meeting as the parent, and when it comes to the occupational therapist, you know, sitting across the table from you, let's assume this is like, maybe not an initial, but a triennial, and they have an evaluation to present. Yeah. From a parent perspective, how much detail are you expecting? Do you just want a quick overview? Do you want the full, you know, page by page rundown? Obviously, every parent's ever but your perspective, what do you like?
Nicole Dahl
I had both ends of the spectrum on that? You know, in those initial days, it was just a quick run through of, you know, here's the goals, here's where we're at. Any questions, okay, now we're done. And then, truthfully, it felt like just a check box that was getting hit. And at that point I didn't know what to ask for, or what to kind of dive in, or even what was possible. But then I had providers who, you know, after we kind of made that switch a few years into it, who went through everything, but I understood, they also kind of translated it, what was on the page, into parent friendly language that I could understand. And again, that's when things really started to click. And things that I could also practice at home, that I just became more aware of how to support my child. You know, there were things like incorporating motor brakes or, you know, they would set up like stickies on in the hallway floor outside. It's like a little obstacle course for him to go through. And sometimes they would even bring me and show me how it is and what it helped, or, you know, different things like that and that. I truthfully felt like that was the most valuable. Yes, it was in depth, but I had a better understanding of why they were working on the things that they were and how it supported my child?
Jayson Davies
Yeah, absolutely. And, and it can be hard because, like, I don't know, in the area across the nation, evaluations vary widely. In my area, in California, we would often write 1012, sometimes longer reports. And in other areas, I know it's very common to write a one and a half two page, you know, report as an occupational therapist to provide to the teacher. So I guess my question is, when you receive a report, and it doesn't necessarily just have to be ot but what do you taking out the verbal communication aspect, right? We're not in the IEP, just looking at a report. What do you hone in on? Is it the recommendations? Is it the analysis? Is it everything? What do you really hone in on?
Nicole Dahl
The recommendations? That was definitely the biggest part for me, other than, you know, there were things, little highlights, I felt like, because they were reports sometimes where the teacher would also have to do a report compared to the OTs report compared to the outside OTs report, and they would mesh them all together and then figuring out where the misalignments were, or where were the things that, you know, hey, maybe he's regressed a little in this skill that we had been working on over here, but it's showing up in the classroom. So that saved space where, really, everybody could talk together and figure out what was best moving forward, if anything needed to be adjusted. So everybody was on the same page. That was really helpful for me.
Jayson Davies
I think again, it's hard when you get a 15 or even 10 or even a five page document about your student, and then you also got a document from the school psychologist, a document from the speech pathologist. Like going through all of them is not simple. And so I think that's kind of why I wanted to ask you that question was to see, is it just, you know, mostly the recommendations. And I say that because, I think a lot of occupational therapy practitioners, we really put a lot of focus on the scores inside the assessment, as opposed to the actual synthesis and analysis that then leads to our recommendations. And I think it's important to know that your recommendations are just as valuable as conducting if not more. So the SPM or the bot three, or whatever it might be like, those recommendations aren't just they don't go or they do go somewhere. They go to the parents, and that's something that the parents can can look at. And the
Nicole Dahl
recommendations were obviously the most helpful from my perspective, because, you know, the reports are great. It shows, like, the measured progress, but in my brain, like, that's that's done. What are we doing next? What are we doing looking forward? Or what can I be doing to support the work you guys are doing in the in the school?
Jayson Davies
Yeah, all right, so you mentioned a communication has just come up, like time and time again in our conversation so far, like and I understand that, and I want to ask you beyond just you know, communication, both with yourself and with the team, is there another aspect of occupational therapy? Especially within the schools, that tended to make you feel more comfortable with occupational therapists or understand that things were going well versus going bad.
Nicole Dahl
It was just those feedback moments of saying, you know, hey, we talked about implementing the motor breaks between classrooms. I touched base with the teacher, and you know, she said that that's made a huge difference. Here's when they were doing it, and, you know, it's made an impact. So I just wanted to touch base and let you know that.
Jayson Davies
So someone's saying they're going to do something, doing it, and then touching base with you to let you know it was done and and that was the outcome, or whatever the outcome was, yeah, yeah. You know, at the end of the day, that's pretty simple, simple, right, right? And so now I ask you, because it sounds like you've also had some, you know, troubles, maybe even beyond those first few years. What was the breakdown when there was a breakdown ever? What do you mean? I guess, yeah, if the communication, and you know, the simple, you know, the simple communication, making sure everyone's doing their job is what works really well, I guess my question is, is in times with an IEP, where maybe things with the district haven't gone so well, and, you know, things maybe last year they were good, and this year they're not. What do you feel led to that? Was it just simply the communication, or was there anything else that led to, you know, something's not right here. I need to call another IEP, because things aren't going well.
Nicole Dahl
It was, truthfully, that disconnect when people weren't talking together, collaboratively. So when you know the teacher would say, you know, oh, I have that paper, but I have 30 other kids in the classroom, and I can't devote this special attention just to this one child, or just that, that disconnect, when it didn't feel like everybody was, was really working together. And there's so many invisible moments that that happen when each of us are are with, you know, my son, and how can we it? And, yes, it's a lot on each person to say, here's how it relates to this, or here's what we're seeing, and that's, you know, truthfully, one of the reason I love Koro is because it takes those invisible feedback and translates it into real data that everybody can see on the back end. So it brings people together and not just keeps them all isolated on their own.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, it's amazing. I really feel like we undervalue communication, and it's something that, and it's not just us, it's an entire school district, like, you know, it's, you know, I'm sure, from your experience, it's not just the OT, who you needed to communicate, right with? It was the SLP, the teacher, the psychologist, whoever else at the district level. So, communication, yeah, just, just so important. One thing I wanted to ask you and talk a little bit more about your son is how things changed as he got older, both in relationship to occupational therapy, but also with IEP. I mean, a did he continue to receive ot for for a decent amount of time? Or how long was that
Nicole Dahl
he continued. So he in school. We first got it at the end of his kindergarten year, and then we stopped receiving it as he transitioned. So the middle school he went to was six seven, so we stopped receiving it after seventh as he transitioned into high school or eighth after the end of eighth transition, or we stopped receiving ot as he transitioned from middle school to high school.
Jayson Davies
Gotcha, that makes sense. And can I ask then, because you already had experienced a transition from elementary to middle school. Was it even a thought to discontinue ot transitioning into the middle school, or any other services from elementary to middle school? Was it one of those things like, and you no one made the recommendation, or B someone maybe thought about it, but we decided, You know what? This is a transition. Let's hold on to it.
Nicole Dahl
We definitely scaled back going from elementary to middle school. A lot of those things he'd been working on in elementary school were kind of like baseline toolbox of items I felt like he needed to develop. So he was able to kind of get these strategies that that helped him, where he could then implement them on his own going into middle school. So it was more as that IEP was there as a buffer in place for middle school, saying, Okay, we're going to give him some a little bit more freedom to see, see how he does, and test it for those two years before transitioning to high school. I think.
Jayson Davies
That's a perfect opportunity to do something like that. And I've definitely have sat in IEPs and kind of maybe said in a slightly different way, but yeah, you know, we're going to keep it on, but maybe we're going to scale back to a consult, you know. We'll be there if necessary, you know. And we can always increase services back up again, but let's see how this goes and be able to support the teachers, yeah. So then going into high school, what made you feel, you know, OT, it's a safe point at this time to discontinue OT,
Nicole Dahl
well, he's always been a smart kid, so grades were never really his problem, and that also worked against us, because in the early years, they would say, you know, academically, he's fine. There's no need for intervention. But at the same point behaviorally there, there was a lot, you know, he would get in trouble for not following instructions, or even sometimes arguing with the teacher, because he would look at it from another lens and say, You know what? I know, I'm right and you're wrong, yeah, because his brain just saw things a little bit differently. Yeah, so, but it really made sense for us going into high school to give him that freedom and say, okay, you've learned years like you know this. You've got this. We believe in you to now take that step forward. In hindsight, are there some teachers he's had in his high school career where I wish we would have still had that in place? Yes, 100% but it's very isolated, and we're able to talk through it at home, because I can say, You know what? Remember, you know, let's and like, let's break that down, and we talk about it at home, but that's because I've learned so much from the providers over the years that I can help see maybe what he's struggling with, or what tools I can also say, hey, remember this, or remember when. And that's helped a lot too.
Jayson Davies
Again, coming back to the communication like just the more that we can empower our parents, our teachers, to be able to use the strategies that we support them with. It's just so impactful. And it leads to not just impact today, but as you just kind of confirmed, right? It leads to impact years later, and you're able to point back to those so awesome. I love it, yeah,
Nicole Dahl
and I would say, you know, just remember that a, you know, yes, you have your your client or your patient being the child, but really, I encourage people to think of it more as the family or the caregivers also as your clients and patients, because the more you can educate us. And I know some parents will just say, you know, yeah, okay, got it or good. But really, some parents are, you know, or depending on the day, can be struggling to get through that single day. And so don't be afraid to say the same thing multiple times, because, you know, our brains might have been so filled with what just happened in the parking lot before we even got into the school or into the appointment, that it may have went in one ear and out the other, right?
Jayson Davies
And you're a VP of marketing. What is it? How many times does someone have to hear something before they get it into their brain, like seven or something like that? It depends.
Nicole Dahl
It depends. Recent studies have actually shown that it can be up to 21 times that they need something to turn it into a habit.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, see, those are the things that you're not going to learn in OT school. But we need to, like, we need to remember that just because we say something one time doesn't mean that the teacher heard it, or the parent heard it, or that they it was processed. So don't be afraid to kind of, you know, in a very polite way, nudge a little bit and and send reminders. So, yeah, yeah. All right, Nicole, looking back at just, you know, the last, gosh, 18 years now, then about what are you most proud of in your son's journey?
Nicole Dahl
Again, I never would have imagined that where we are today is where we would have been back then. You know, truthfully, when he was in preschool and kindergarten, I never would have anticipated him going, you know, we were even wondering if he would be okay in a mainstream school at that point. I never thought he would go to college. I never thought he would drive a car or maybe even be able to live on his own, and all of those things are very tangible, and we're talking about them and having those discussions now, never in a million years, what I'd say, you know he's going to play a team sport, know all of his teammates names, be able to engage in conversation, Much less a sport like water polo, where it's so stimulating all of the time, we were just blown away watching him being able to do that. And I think back to to little him who would struggle with wearing a itchy sweater that he got from his grandma. And think it was you. Know the worst thing ever in his life, and then have to in high school, say you're going to stand up in front of a speedo in front of the entire school like I no way would I have imagined that without OT and all the supporting services in between.
Jayson Davies
That's fantastic. I'm so proud. I'm so proud of him. I don't even know him, and I'm proud of him. I love it. I love that you and your family have gotten to a point where it's just a point where you never knew, never potentially thought that you might get to that's just, that's really awesome. Kudos to your entire family. All right, I do have two final questions here for you, and the first one, I think I might already know a little bit of the answer, but if you were well, I mean, you are speaking to school based occupational therapy practitioners right now. What is one piece of advice or wisdom, or what do you just want them to know? As a parent,
Nicole Dahl
we want to be educated. We may seem busy, or we may seem, you know, passive in the process, but every parent I've ever met wants the best for their child and make us understand, if you have to, you know, stand in front of us and say over and over again, this is why I'm doing this, and this is how it can impact your child. You have to tell us the why behind things, or we're not going to understand and we're not going to get the buy in that you deserve for all the hard work that you do.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, yeah. I think that's what sometimes we need to hear as therapists do, to know that you know what, we do need to support a little bit, not just the student, but also the parents, and let them know everything that we're working on Absolutely. And the final question here is actually for the parents listening, because I imagine that there might be some parents who find this podcast and just really want to hear from a parent perspective. And so words of wisdom for for parents who are kind of, maybe they're in their kids in kindergarten right now, and they're just getting into school based. OT, what words of wisdom do you have for them? Check with it.
Nicole Dahl
That is the best advice that I got from that preschool in the beginning. As this will help, because in the beginning, you know, if I'm honest, those first two years, I didn't see a difference that it was making. I didn't understand how it was going to help. I didn't understand the why behind anything, but really just trusting the process, but getting involved to educate yourself. It takes a village that is said over and over again, but really, you have to communicate what you're seeing at home, find supports that can, you know, communicate things holistically, because your child deserves that chance. And days are hard with a special needs child, they are long, they are frustrating, but your children deserve your attention, and you're the one who can provide the biggest impact in their life and what it's going to look like.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, yeah. Nicole, thank you so much. It has been a pleasure. Thank you for being so open and sharing your story and letting us know about both the good and the difficult times. I know that's not always easy, and I'm just so glad we're able to do this. I think it is going to help, you know, school based ot practitioners, this episode is going to help them just as much, if not more than 100 other episodes that we have that are about the details of an assessment, or about, you know, the details of sensory processing or something like this, like it is so important. So important for us to remember that a parent is just as important to the IEP team as anyone else that's there, and that we need to work with them. They are not our foe. They are part of our team, and we need to be in communication with them. It sounds like that is just a huge piece that can sometimes either be missing or really make the entire team come together to support a student. So thank you, Nicole. Really appreciate it.
Nicole Dahl
Thank you for having me and sharing stories.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, and that's going to wrap up episode 195 thank you so much for joining us today, and also a huge thank you to Nicole for sharing her family's journey with us and reminding us why parent communication and collaboration matters so much. Nicole's story is a powerful example of how occupational therapy, of course, when paired with clear communication and teamwork, can really change the lives of the students we serve. If you found this episode valuable, I would love for you to share with another school based ot practitioner who might benefit from hearing a parent's perspective, or perhaps share it with a parent who you think could benefit from hearing Nicole's story. And if you're looking for more resources, professional development and mentorship to support your school based ot practice, come check out the school based ot collaborative at. OTSchoolHouse.com, slash collab, we've got a whole community of practitioners ready to support you, plus monthly PD courses, a global bank, AI tools and so much more. Thank you again for tuning in to this episode of the OT schoolhouse podcast, and I will catch you next time.
Amazing Narrator
Thank you for listening to the OT schoolhouse podcast for more ways to help you and your students succeed right now, head on over to otschoolhouse.com Until next time class is dismissed.
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