OTS 29: Assistive Tech & Switches for Students With High Needs Featuring RJ Cooper
- Jayson Davies
- Apr 29, 2019
- 32 min read
Updated: May 7
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Welcome to the show notes for Episode 29 of the OT Schoolhouse Podcast.
Do you work with students who use iPads or other technology tools to access their educational curriculum and environment? RJ from RJCooper.com is a computer science guru that specializes in developing tools for people with special needs and the people who serve them. For nearly 40 years, RJ has worked primarily with people who have developmental disabilities to help them benefit from highly specialized switches, computers and applications, and mechanisms that position these tools.
Listen in to learn more about how RJ develops tools and hear what tools he recommends for every classroom with a population that may require specialized equipment.
Links to Show References:
Quick reminder: Links below may be affiliate links. Affiliate links benefit the OT Schoolhouse at no additional cost to you
The below references were mentioned throughout Episode 29
If you'd like to have RJ visit your area, visit RJCooper.com/roadtrip
Email RJ at RJ@rjcooper.com
Jane is an SLP and special educator with a passion for literacy, Augmentative and Alternative Communication (AAC), and Assistive Technology. Her website has many references and recommendations related to these fields.
Be sure to subscribe to the OT Schoolhouse email list & get access to our free downloads of Gray-Space paper and the Occupational Profile for school-based OTs.
Have any questions or comments about the podcast? Email Jayson at Jayson@otschoolhouse.com
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Episode Transcript
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Amazing Narrator
Abby, hello and welcome to the OT schoolhouse podcast. Your source for the latest school based occupational therapy tips, interviews and research now to get the conversation started, here are your hosts, Jayson and Abby. Class is officially in session.
Jayson Davies
Hey everyone, and welcome to episode number 29 of the OT school health podcast. My name is Jayson Davies, and I'm your host of the OT school house podcast. Really appreciate you being here. In fact, I was just admiring some Instagram posts where you guys are sharing that you're actually watching the or, sorry not watching. This is a podcast sharing that you guys are listening to the podcast, but I'm seeing that you're listening to it by looking at Instagram posts and seeing everyone sharing it. In fact, actually, I wanted to kind of press pause here real quick and ask you guys to to share that, actually to take a picture of maybe your phone or the computer, a screenshot, and just share on social media that you're listening. I want to know maybe like where you're listening, or how you're listening, and when you do that, go ahead and tag at ot school house so I can be sure to see it, and we'll see. Maybe I have a few things to give away for people who are actually doing that. I really appreciate that, and I can't wait to see all your photos. Excited with that. Before we get into it, I want to make sure that you all just remember that all the show notes from this episode can be found at ot schoolhouse.com forward slash episode 29 Wow. That just made me realize that we're almost episode 30. Alrighty, but staying with today. Our guest today is RJ Cooper from RJ cooper.com and although he is not an occupational therapist, he has been helping individuals with developmental disabilities for nearly 40 years as an AT specialist, what started off as a passion to work with computers quickly turned in to a passion for helping people with disabilities when he realized that he could combine the two. Since the 80s, RJ has been writing code for applications as well as developing physical products that don't exist otherwise or maybe are just too expensive to access, and he puts those together to help people who need just the right equipment and in order to access both technology and the physical world. And now, as we jump into today's episode, I want to say a quick thank you to doubletimedocs.com for sponsoring today's episode of the podcast. Doubletimedocs.com is a software designed to help you write comprehensive evaluations in half the time. Use promo code ot sh 20 to get 20% off your first order of evaluations now. And without further ado, here is RJ Cooper from RJ cooper.com Hey, RJ, welcome to the OT school house podcast. How are you doing today?
Rj Cooper
I'm doing well. Thank you. How about yourself?
Jayson Davies
Doing pretty well for Tuesday. It was nice to have a three day weekend, and now just back to it. So did you have the chance to take yesterday off? Or were you busy? I was busy. Of course, this kind of goes with owning a business, I think. But I wanted to say something. I mean, it's not really related to the podcast, but you mentioned that you actually coach tennis. I thought that was super cool. I used to play back in high school. Where are you coaching?
Rj Cooper
In Irvine, Tustin and Santa Ana in California.
Jayson Davies
Oh, is that like, Are you, like, teaching at a JC, or is it just kind of a private thing you do, or?
Rj Cooper
It's, they're all privates. They're freelance. So I have six juniors right now that I coach.
Jayson Davies
Oh, that's cool. It's always fun talking to people and just finding out what other things they do outside of, you know, their nine to five jobs. So that's pretty cool to do. Thank you. Yeah. Well, I want to give you a second to kind of go ahead and dive into a little bit of your background and tell us about what you do.
Rj Cooper
Well, I started in Computer Science at the University of Utah, when they got close to graduation, I wanted to do something with it. The Peace Corps wasn't interested, but I wanted to do something like that. So on my own, I came up with the idea of using computers for people with disabilities. That was back in 1983 no real audience existed for computers back then. People thought that computers were some big mainframe somewhere else in the world, and I introduced micro computers to Utah. And I worked on a project with speech recognition, with a young man that had a cliff diving accident the summer before, but wanted to continue his education by speaking to a computer and having it understand and we worked on that project. It was mildly successful, but it was enough to make me sort of famous within Utah, and then I've just carried on with it over the years.
Jayson Davies
Wow. So that was so speech recognition. Was this like a speech to text, type of program, or what did this do?
Rj Cooper
It was speech to text early, very early on in 1983 there was a manufacturer down here in Irvine that was making a speech recognition board for the Apple two computer was very limited, but I saw the potential for Brian and I drove down one weekend and got one of the boards and drove back to Brian, I wrote a program to allow him to design a schematic, a circuit. Diagram by voice, and then we showed it off at the nest Governor's Council on the employment of the handicapped, and it was a big hit.
Jayson Davies
Wow. So just because this was you said 1983 about so what did this look like like? What did the setup look like?
Rj Cooper
It was an apple 2e which was a beige monster, about the size of a about the size of a briefcase, about the size of a briefcase, okay? And then on top of that was a 17 inch green screen, so it only had two colors, green and black. And then we had a floppy, five and a quarter inch disk drive, and then we had a microphone, a little headset that would go on Brian's head, and that was it.
Jayson Davies
And we've come so far now to iPads, eye touches, iPhones, all this good stuff that's crazy, but still, I've.
Rj Cooper
been in touch with Brian over the years, and he's progressed along with the industry, is doing some great stuff now too.
Jayson Davies
That's awesome. That's always nice to be able to follow people that you've worked with in the past. I'm sure you get to do that quite often.
Rj Cooper
not as much as I'd like, but every once in a while, it's very rewarding.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, that's cool. So, so that was 1983 and obviously, I mean, we kind of, we know you're kind of going into technology and stuff. So what kind of came after that?
Rj Cooper
I started writing software for the severe, profound population, because I got involved with a special school in Salt Lake City that had 201 severely disabled children students, and I found my passion, which was to help those most severely disabled do something in the world. And I started had to write software, because no one else was writing software at all for special needs, let alone for the severe, profound population. So I sort of found my niche that way. Moved to California, started growing an international audience that was interested in my work with that type of a population, and it just grew in leaps and bounds there in the late 80s and early 90s.
Jayson Davies
Wow. So I know when I last heard you speak, I think it was down in Orange County at a at an OT school based conference, and I honestly was kind of under the impression more that you were doing a little bit of the adaptive technology, in the sense of, like the arms that hold the iPads and stuff like that. But it sounds like you really got your start with the actual programming. So that's really
Rj Cooper
cool. That's correct. That's correct. I really wanted to help that population, but in April of 2010 Steve Jobs came out with the iPad, and the whole industry changed.
Jayson Davies
Oh, I'm sure. And I want to get completely into that, but, but first tell us about some of the programs that you've developed.
Rj Cooper
The one that I started with, and I still continue it today, is called point to pictures, and that's a program where we can choose pictures that are personally motivating to a specific individual, put them on a grid, such as back in those days, there was a unit called the Power Pad, which was a touch towel, touch touch device. These days, of course, there's the iPad, which is the computer, and the touch device all in one, but we can put 234, or even nine pictures on one screen and make the program really pop at them so they really understand that what they've selected they're going to actually get in real life. And that really spoke volumes to that type of an individual,
Jayson Davies
absolutely and and do you typically find that you start with, you know that that least amount of pictures on that board?
Rj Cooper
Oh, yes, I always start with two, and if they can't get any type of discrimination between the two because they're both good, then we have to put one that's non preferred on there so they can learn the difference between the pictures.
Jayson Davies
There you go. Kind of like a picture exchange communication, except two pictures.
Rj Cooper
Well, it is an evolution, shall we say, of picture exchange communication, pecs, as it's called, but definitely an electronics version that allows more than one thing to be displayed.
Jayson Davies
At a time, absolutely. So, I mean, I know there's a lot of different things. I know one of our go to at at our school site is the Proloquo to go on the iPad. I've seen some other ones. How is yours kind of different from that?
Rj Cooper
Well, pro local to go is a rather complex, complicated beast. It's wonderful for those that are high cognitively and physically, but when it comes down to needing some type of fun factor, which pro local has none of and hand holding factor, which pro local has none of. Then you've got to get down to something that's instructional and point to pictures. Is instructional in that it actually teaches them how to select from pictures to real life, whereas pro local makes the assumption that they already know that.
Jayson Davies
That I can speak from knowing pro local. A little bit that that is completely true. In fact, so many times we have kids that probably need kind of what you're talking about, but yet they have pages and pages and folders and folders of these different pictures and and text on those pictures, and they just get lost.
Rj Cooper
It's a it's it's a constant battle with school districts not to immediately purchase pro local to go with an iPad, because someone assumes that everyone will be able to use Pro local to go rather than figure out what program, what app would actually be appropriate.
Jayson Davies
That's kind of like the augmented communication side of it. Yes, what you're talking about in that app.
Rj Cooper
Yes. Okay, so.
Jayson Davies
Do you also do more, I guess, assistive technology. I know we talked a little bit about how I thought you were doing, kind of the arms and stuff. But what else do you have, other than the augmented communication that you do with the students.
Rj Cooper
As I work more with the students at Hart vixen school, that special school in Salt Lake. I also got a chance to work with some physically disabled people, students from three through 21 years old that allegedly had quote, unquote normal cognitive skills, but very physically challenged. I found that very quickly that not only were they physically challenged, but simply by lack of hands on experience with the world, they were developmentally challenged also, so a person that was 15 years old, well that we can't put them in the severe, profound cognitive range, but they're going to be operating somewhere at about a five to six year old level thinking skills, Even though they're 15 years old and allegedly, quote, unquote, normal. I like that we use the word typical rather than normal.
Jayson Davies
So what were you able to help them out with?
Rj Cooper
Then, this was get into the access area. Back in 1986 this would have been the term assistive technology didn't exist yet. We were calling our field adaptive technology, but then someone decided assistive technology fit better. But at that point, at that point, I started to get into switches and access points on somebody's body, and then being able to mount that switch in such a way that you can put it on the wheelchair very easily, get it in a perfect position, but then be able to move it to somebody else's wheelchair very quickly, and that became a very strong revenue source for me, also being a specialist with adaptive arms buttons and other things that would help somebody physically access a computer and hence, eventually, an iPad.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, and, and when you talk about switches, you bring those up as OTs, you know, we get to, we get to work with some switches between us and the speech pathologist, we tend to have kind of the switches down. What different types of switches have you worked with?
Rj Cooper
I've worked with every switch that's been available over over the course of my 35 years. However, when I travel and I do on site assessments, I literally carry four switches with me to cover 99% of the situation.
Jayson Davies
All right, there we go. What are those? One?
Rj Cooper
One is a large, round, five inch switch, and I have a version that's just a regular switch, and also a Bluetooth version these days, so the electronics for it to communicate to an iPad are actually inside the switch and it has no cables. That's nice. And I also carry with me a three inch switch, once again, is a fairly standard three inch switch, similar to like a jelly bean switch from AbleNet, but I also make that again as a Bluetooth switch so that people don't have to worry about a cable. And I also carry a one inch switch for people that need it to be in the palm of their hand, that we can velcro a small button in the palm of their hand. And then I also carry a very special switch that's once again held in the palm of your hand, but it can be activated by the slightest touch of your index finger or your thumb. And those are my four switches that cover pretty much everything, just about all of it, huh?
Jayson Davies
Wow, yep. So you mentioned the Bluetooth, and that kind of goes back into this whole crazy technology. What has the development of an iPad? And all those, those new, you know, the last 10, maybe 15 years, what has that done to your profession?
Rj Cooper
Well, it's changed the revenue base completely, as well as what people are actually doing out there in the field. The iPad is basically a full computer in a tablet sized so we can make movies on it. We can take pictures on it. We can record our voice on it. All of those required three separate things before you'd have to have a video camera, you'd have to have a digital camera, you'd have to have a microphone and a sound card, even back in the day, and the iPad just put everything all into one so beautifully in the September. September of 2010 the parents first jumped on the bandwagon, and the parents said, Wow, this is really groundbreaking tech for our kids, and they actually led the way technologically in that September of 2010 whereas before that time, the speech he usually would have to drag the parents into technology kicking and screaming once the iPad came out, the tables were turned, and the parents were now. They were the pioneers. They were leading the charge. They were telling the speech path, or OT, what they wanted their child to do in school. And it was very nice to see the parents get so so involved, some of them to the point of learning how to program their ot apps on iPad.
Jayson Davies
Wow, that's crazy. I mean, I was just reading an article about how someone actually, I think, whose parent created this, it was snap type. I'm sure you've probably heard of SNAP type, but it was a parent, I think, that actually developed it for their kid who had difficulty with writing, and so they developed an app that they could take a picture and then just type right under the picture, so you're absolutely right.
Rj Cooper
There are still, when you go to the two industry events that we have each year, closing the gap in the fall in Minneapolis area, and then Atia, the Assistive Technology Industry Association, their annual event in Orlando, right around middle of the winter. There are still booths like mine, exhibits like mine, where there's actually parents and or individuals that have taken up this challenge and are still doing it just as individuals, rather than as a corporation entity.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, and I know it's it's getting very popular for for corporations to do stuff like what you're doing. I know Microsoft, they just had their huge release of their controller for the Xbox, which they, I think, had a Super Bowl ad, and so that was amazing. But how does being small help you? In a way.
Rj Cooper
I've always picked a niche within the assistive technology field. At one point, I was a very big fish within a small pond. But as the 90s evolved, I became a smaller fish in a bigger pond, as companies like my Toby acquired speaking dynamically, and then they acquired DynaVox, but it allowed me to stay in my own individual little customization area. My path was never to grow my business. My path was to help individuals, and that's what I've stayed true to all these years. When I go out to a cornfield in Iowa and work at a very small school there because someone has a situation they just can't figure out, and they call me in as sort of the big gun, so to speak. So I've stayed true to that.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, and I'm sure even as adaptable as Microsoft Xbox controller is, there's probably like, like, you're kind of mentioning those few people who it still doesn't work for. And I think that's where you can kind of come in. Is it not that you are entirely correct?
Rj Cooper
I still get the real personalizations so that I'll get a call I have a student that my child needs, things of that nature. I love to respond to those calls, I bet.
Jayson Davies
Tell me about like, what does it look like when a school calls you up and says, Hey, you know, we got this kid. We've tried a few things, and we just can't find that thing, that thing that works for him or her. What does that look like? When you get that call.
Rj Cooper
I immediately refer them to my website page for that type of a visit. It's called a road trip, and it's at RJ cooper.com, forward slash road trip, all lower case, no spaces, no periods, and it details what's necessary for me to come out of my own expense to their area and work with kids on site there and local other districts around them. So all they have to pay for is my lodging. I take care of my airfare with Miles, usually, and then I take care of my time, and I fly in on a Tuesday night, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. I visit different schools. Usually they set up eight people for me to work with, from three through 73 because they bring in all sorts of agencies. And in front of a group of about 100 people, I try to make a change in that person's life right there, using the technology that I've developed. And over the course of all my years, I've gotten quite good at it. So I can usually bring what I call an Oprah moment to happen. That's when, you know, people start to cry and they're going, oh my gosh, it's a miracle. I call those Oprah moments.
Jayson Davies
Sorry, when you said Oprah moment, I also, I also thought about just giving everyone away a car. I don't think you're able to do that.
Rj Cooper
One, but I do give away in order for it to be very entertaining throughout the day, I do give away little things throughout the day, like a pen that's also a screwdriver, things of that nature,
Jayson Davies
nice little things that everyone can can use around cool. Yeah, yeah. All right. So what do you recommend? And that even just kind of a classroom should have on hand as a sort to try different things with different kids. Is there, kind of, like you said, you have your four buttons that you carry with you everywhere? Do you think there's, like, a few different odds and ends, different tools that kind of every month, severe, severe, profound classroom should kind of have on hand?
Rj Cooper
Well, I do think so now that if you had asked me this question 20 to 30 years ago between then, every special needs classroom that had a computer had it in tele keys that was standard. Every one had a Big Mac communicator, which is a five inch round one message button, every place had a jelly bean switch. Most places had a switch interface for their computer. And then, of course, they had their computer. And those were sort of standard fare for the whole country. In from, I'd say, about 1988 through the year 2000 Okay, in 2010 though my recommendation, and of course, it's going to be a vested interest in the things that I've developed. I always develop. I always develop things from need. In other words, somebody calls me or emails or speaks with me, and they have a need, and that's what I fulfill. I generally don't create something that's already created unless I could bring it in at like 1/4 the price, because somebody else just completely over pricing something. So these days, my recommendation, of course, is an iPad. I like the big iPad, the 12.9 even though it's not as popular as the smaller ones. But when it comes to situations with disabilities, bigger is always better.
Jayson Davies
Can I stop you there? You mentioned iPad, the bigger the better. What is your take on an iPad versus an iPad Pro? Is there any difference? There?
Rj Cooper
No, no. You can go back to 12 nine is an iPad Pro? There are actually four different iPad Pros, the 9.7 the 10.5 the 11 and the 12.9 Wow.
Jayson Davies
I know people think, yeah.
Rj Cooper
Some people think just by saying Pro, that sort of delineates the iPad, but there are four different pros, and now there's both a first, second generation 12.9 those are basically the same, but then they've changed it completely on the third generation 12.9 Okay, so bigger is better. The next thing they need, they need some type of a stand to get the iPad on about a 70 degree angle. Having the iPad flat on their lap, flat on a surface, just leads to what I call hunching. They're hunching their shoulders over, and they're looking down, and they're really just in that little bubble, putting it on a stand that puts it at about 70 degrees, holds their shoulders erect. Their trunk is erect. Their head is up. Their eyes are forward, and they're touching forward and back, rather than down and up. So that's the first thing is a very good, solid stand that can't be tipped over. Coincidentally, I happen to make one of those. Next thing would be, next thing would be some Bluetooth buttons. Why use wires at all these days? Just get a switch that has Bluetooth inside, and you're done. And then you'd either get one three inch, one five inch, or one of each, depending upon your need. Then the last thing that I think that is really necessary is, well, another thing to go along with the switches, you definitely need at least one type of positioning arm so that you can get that button into these weird situations that you find yourself in. So a positioning arm would be another must have, and finally, would be a keyboard, a keyboard that is large with large buttons. And my particular take on a keyboard is colored rows, so each row is a different color. Coincidentally, once again, I made mine from need because I got tired of having to point out the keys to the learners. Now I just say looking for the cue it's on the blue row, and sure enough, that they just scan that row left to right, like they've been trained their whole life, and they find the key by themselves nine times out of 10. Those are the essentials, the keyboard, the positioning alarm, a Bluetooth button, and a stand for their iPad. And as they say in the UK, Bob's your uncle.
Jayson Davies
All right. Well, I'll be visiting that later this summer, so I'll have to keep that one in mind, but to keep that in mind, yeah, is that the keyboard you're talking about? The colored keyboard? Is that also Bluetooth?
Rj Cooper
Yes, you bet. Why use cables if you don't have to, especially when 90% of therapy, I would say probably 90% of therapy in schools these days, technologically speaking, is done with iPads. Computers are sort of passe.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, I think you're looking at my district that's pretty similar those numbers
Rj Cooper
And I travel all over, and I see it all the time and and I don't see this trend diminishing either. The Android. Market has not impinged on the iPad market at all, and Windows has definitely not made a resurgence.
Jayson Davies
You don't think so. What I have seen with with Windows or Microsoft in general, is that they are trying to cater to kind of the the quote, unquote, disability market. In a sense, they're trying to make things that are more open access and able to be used by people with more abilities.
Rj Cooper
Well, unfortunately, it's that's just not a true statement. Oh, not quite yet. The only, well, it's not ever, in my opinion, any word there is try. They try because it looks good. PR, wise, they just put 20 filled $5 million into AI for disabilities. However, if you go to Atia or closing the gap, where all of we people that actually are the movers and shakers go, you can see that not much becomes of those dollars. It's a lot of hot air. The real work is done by the small people in the field, but also the bigger corporates now that are using their own funds and they're just working the bigger players are the ones that still sell these bloated communication devices for $13,000 and they're still shopping, yeah, they're still getting it so Frankie romich Toby, they're all still getting these big bucks because Medicare pays and they have people that can get it funded so that the user or the teacher doesn't have to pay anything. You and I, Mr. Taxpayer, are paying for a $13,000 device, like an eye gaze device for a person of a cognitive age of one year old. And that has not changed.
Jayson Davies
Gotcha, okay.
Rj Cooper
However, like Microsoft, Apple, Sun computers, all the big players in the computer world, all of them put some funds in to the disability market. It's good. PR, I would say Apple is the only one that's really done their share by adding accessibility features to the iPad time and time again, with some of them being very, very good, and other ones being just not needed at all. You can tell that they were done by an engineer who thought they were needed, but they just put them in because the engineer said, Well, this might help, but Apple has definitely put, I would say, as a programmer myself, I probably put $2 million worth of man hours into their free accessibility features on iPads.
Jayson Davies
Okay, so you mentioned those? What? What accessibility features are on the iPad? Would they just come with the box that's correct?
Rj Cooper
You got zoom, so you can make everything large on the iPad. You've got voiceover, so you can hear everything that's happening on the iPad, and then the latest one that really affects my field. My particular area is the Switch Control, which came out about three, three and a half years ago, which enables switch access to some apps that normally would not have switch access, gotcha, and most of the time, most of those are the Apple apps themselves. So mail, messages, music, camera, photos, Safari, things of that nature work pretty well with Switch Control. When you have somebody that's very physically limited, but cognitively they're pretty intact.
Jayson Davies
Gotcha okay. And so earlier, you're mentioning mentioning Bluetooth. And I remember, I don't know, a few months ago I read an article about how old school Bluetooth really is, and it kind of, you know, it was designed back in the 80s, and yet we're still using it today. When it comes to Bluetooth, are you able to connect multiple items to an iPad, or is that even not necessary?
Rj Cooper
Oh, very good question. Which people don't know that Bluetooth is not like Wi Fi. They're both radio frequencies, so they're not infrared, like your TV remote, but Wi Fi is one on one. You connect one iPad to a Wi Fi connection, and you can connect another iPad to the same Wi Fi connection. Bluetooth is just a reverse. The iPad is the host, and you can connect up to 65 Bluetooth devices to one iPad. I had no idea, and that's why, when you pair something on an iPad, that little spinny circle is still going because it's looking for 64 other things.
Jayson Davies
It all makes sense now. So now that just begs me to ask the question is, what has been the most that you have paired to work efficiently? I mean, obviously, maybe you tested 65 just for the kicks and giggles, you know. But what have you seen to actually work?
Rj Cooper
The easiest way to see this in action is to go to a trade show where there are, you know that there are a lot of Bluetooth enabled phones, and you power up your Bluetooth, and you look at your iPad, and you can see, like, 100 different things Bluetooth that are in the hall, wow. And that means that all these different devices are Bluetooth. They're not paired with your phone or your iPad, but you can see that they all are capable of being paired. So you could, if you had all 100 people there, you could ask 65 to pair with your one iPad. The most I've ever paired is about five devices. And even with five, the iPad started to get confused, as far as what the switch was.
Jayson Davies
I'm sure, and what the switch was for, potentially, right?
Rj Cooper
Yeah, it got confused, so I would have to reduce the paring down if I was doing switches, I would basically reduce the pairing down to my bluetooth keyboard and one switch just to keep the iPad in sync with what I was doing. Gotcha.
Jayson Davies
Okay. So when it comes to setting up a switch with an iPad, Is it as simple as just connecting it? Or I mean, like I feel like if I had my my iPad right here, and I connected a switch, I wouldn't know how to use the switch with the iPad. How do How does one go about learning that?
Rj Cooper
Well, that is the crux of the matter. Is we can pair something with an iPad, but it doesn't mean we know what to do with it once it's fared so you've got Switch Control. When you pair a switch, you can have that switch, or even two switches control, basically the Apple apps, and that's pretty cool. Then you can use switch enabled apps. So these are apps that are switch friendly. They've been programmed by somebody like me for someone like you to use with somebody with a disability. And some people call those switch compatible apps. Some people call them switch friendly apps. Some people just call them switch apps. So pro local to go is a switch friendly app because it has that switch compatibility built in. My Apps are switch friendly app because they have that switch compatibility built in. There are about 100 apps altogether that have switch compatibility built in to do things such as cause and effect, which would mean you press your switch, some music plays for a while, it stops. And then the user, the learner, actually would need to know that he has to press the switch again to get more music. So we would call that a cause and effect tasks. And then you go up to selecting. So if we use my quote to pictures as an example, and we have a grid of four reinforceable activities on the grid on the iPad, and then we scan amongst them auditorily, verbally, in other words, and we move a box around amongst them, the person can use their switch to select from the four. The app goes about its Bing, bang, bang, to make the person aware that they've made a selection. And then we, in the real world, actually give them the balloon or the water or kick them outside or whatever they've requested. Yeah. And then, at the highest level, you generally have a high cognitive ability, but physically very challenged. So you're talking about pro local to go for communication or one of about there's about five apps that are competitive with pro local to go that are in the same price range and that have the same basic feature set. But then you also get into other types of things, such as early academics. Not many people in the world make switch friendly early academic apps. I'm not sure why I make two of them scan a word for early spelling and then, well, actually, only one, and that's for people that are starting the spelling process and need real help to get through. But if you look around for any type of academic or early academic switch friendly apps, you just won't find any 90% of switch friendly apps. Actually, all apps for the iPad are AAC apps.
Jayson Davies
AAC meaning augmented communication. Yes. Okay, so is there a way to easily know what apps are switch enabled?
Rj Cooper
There actually is. There's a person in Australia that keeps great track of apps, in general, for special needs. Jay Farrell. Is her name and her website, I believe, is Jane, j, A, N, E, but then you've got the Farrell spelling, so it's either F as in Frank A R R E L, L, or F as in Frank a r e l or some variation. My guess is as soon as you type Jane F and Google, it's going to pop right up. And she does a great job, and she's been staying current with the apps, and she really she's made it her mission to do that.
Jayson Davies
Gotcha, that's really cool of her. Recently, I also heard that Apple may be introducing the function to use a mouse with the iPad. Have you heard about that? And if so, how do you think it will potentially help this population?
Rj Cooper
Well, actually, it's a thing of these present right now, at the ATI conference down in Orlando, two weeks ago, there were two companies showing off a magic box in which you can plug in a USB mouse of any type, which could be a track ball or a head mouse. In other words, you can track somebody's head to move the cursor around on the screen, or even if you had it eye gaze. And it allowed all these USB devices to plug into this magic box, the magic box communicated by a Bluetooth with the iPad, and presto, change. Oh, it put a cursor on the iPad within all apps. It was pretty impressive.
Jayson Davies
Yeah. I mean, that kind of seems like a really big step, and I'm surprised that Apple didn't somehow come up with that. You know, we've been How long has an iPad been around? Since about 2010 or so.
Rj Cooper
You said that's correct in April of 2010 Wow.
Jayson Davies
So eight years, and we finally have a mouse that you can use with an iPad.
Rj Cooper
There is that. But again, but when we're working with people with severe cognitive situations, the more direct link between what they do and what happens, the more they'll understand what's going on. Very true as soon as you as soon as you give them a device that's connected by cable to something else that they did have to watch something moving around on the screen and understanding that they're pointing to something cognitively that's almost an order of magnitude more challenging for them. Yeah, so the iPad itself speaking and asking them to touch the iPad directly. Cognitively, it's much easier for somebody to understand that whole situation rather than moving a mouse, knowing that they have to be careful how they move the mouse, how they click the mouse, that the mouse is connected to, the iPad, that the iPad is showing an arrow, that the arrow is pointing to something, you can see how confusing that could be to someone that's not totally typical.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, and I think that kind of goes back to the conversation we had a few minutes ago where you were saying that iPads are more prevalent than like a computer, and that's kind of the same reasoning, in a sense, with the computer, obviously you have to use the mouse and so well.
Rj Cooper
There are, there are people that will learn a computer, and they'll learn mousing, and then they'll go to an iPad and they'll say, Where's the mouse? That's the situation where this new magic box would come in handy, because it would give them a mouse. Unfortunately, the magic box the price tag more than the iPad.
Jayson Davies
It's $400 there you go. That sounds about right, but I can't imagine. Well, I don't know. I kind of feel like Apple would be able to come out with a mouse that just goes directly to the iPad that they could sell for. I mean, you know, they're going to overprice. It be $150 or so, but still cheaper than this potential.
Rj Cooper
Now, what they would do if they were going to do it, and I'm sure they've discussed it probably a gazillion times, is they would just make the iPad through Bluetooth mouse compatible, that would probably be an hour's job for one of our programmers. So it wouldn't be hard at all. So obviously they would have had this discussion many times over, and they decided that mousing wasn't really part of the plan for iPads, because they could have done it 1000 times by now, and they've chosen not to.
Jayson Davies
Absolutely. Yeah, you're right. So, all right, I want to ask you one more question, kind of looking forward into the future before I let you go, and that is exactly that. Like, where do you see assistive technology, maybe even throw in AAC communication within like the next five to 10 years. What do you see as being the next big thing?
Rj Cooper
Well, my hope is mind reading five to 10 years. That's my hope. The biggest challenge we've had over the years has not, has not been cognitive. We've come up with learning tools that Once applied, they really do their job. We've come up with physical access tools that, once implemented, they really do their job. Where we're missing on is speed and you being an OT I'm sure you've rubbed their balls with speech paths and people where it takes a gazillion years for them to create a message using any app whatsoever, any program. Yeah, it just takes too long. I'm talking to you at a rate of at 120 words a minute right now. I'm sorry, 180 words a minute right now. I'm talking to you at the rate of three words per second. If I was to slow down my speech to two words per second, I would lose your ability to concentrate on what I'm saying.
Jayson Davies
You are absolutely right.
Rj Cooper
People using AAC are outputting at about 20 words a minute max. And so for somebody to stay engaged with an AAC user that's creating text right there at 20 words a minute, even that Max is not going to do it, and that's why, when you're out in the real world, you don't see people using communication devices. No, you can think of that as the failure. When was the last time you went to a grocery store and somebody and saw somebody using a communication device.
Jayson Davies
Ever other than the kid that we you? That it's his goal to use it and we go to the market with them. No, you're right.
Rj Cooper
Never, never. Well, that's we're 30 years into this, and the word is never. And that's a failure, in my opinion. So the failure here is to retrieve and create messages on the fly, which is technology for now, and that's going to require some type of predictive ability based on context, based on artificial intelligence. I'm not sure what it's going to take, but anything that I've seen in any trade show, any of the conferences that I go to, that claim that they're mind reading, they only do it for the click of the mouse. That's it. So it's sort of an on off. So they count that it's mind reading. They count that they're using these electrodes on the brain. But when you actually ask them what's being accomplished, they go, Oh, we can click the mouse with that. Well, that's nothing. That's just ridiculous. So I'm hoping that somebody comes up with a clever and actually effective method of increasing the speed of people using AAC or creating text and Microsoft Word, something creative. We've had some attempts over the years, but they've been so off the walls that people have looked at it and said, I have no idea what I'm looking at, because it just didn't make intuitive sense to them. So whoever comes up with something clever like this, it also has to be intuitive, because most people that are implementing technology at the school levels are going to be between the ages of 30 and seven years old, non technical people, and that's the those are the people that are implementing technology for the most part. So whatever is being made has to be completely intuitive and reasonable for somebody to be able to that's my say on it.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, in my house right now, I actually have a few Google Home hubs, and I know a lot of what you do has to do with augmentative communication, but what do you think about the power of voice for some of those people with disabilities, physical disabilities, and being able to use their voice and able to access communication, to be able To access all sorts of things?
Rj Cooper
Well, first off, by far, people that have a physical disability, congenitally from birth usually have a voice disability. Also, it's rare when somebody by birth has a severe physical limitation and they speak typically, that's very rare. You rarely run across that. Okay, the only times you really run across severe physical limitations and typical voice patterns are in acquired type of injuries. So accidents, war, war, victims, situations of that nature, which are not as many as you would think come across my desk. I think because people know my area of expertise, so I don't see a lot of acquired injuries about maybe four or five times a year, I get involved with them and voice especially with Alexa being so darn dependable, as compared with Siri, who's not nearly as dependable? No, not at all. So Alex Alexa is really a nice forward advanced by Amazon. I've not tried any of the Google devices, but I can only assume by their presence in Best Buy and other stores of that nature that they're as good on their speech recognition as Alexa, because if they weren't and wouldn't be able to compete. Yeah, Siri is only still around because the iPhone is still around, and probably always will be, but Siri is not that good at voice recognition.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, I've basically, I like I said, I have the Googles, the Google Home and the Google minis, and I have basically replaced Siri on my phone with the Google Assistant app, and for me, it's easier to talk to Google on my iPhone than it is to talk to Siri. As far as using Alexa, a few of my friends have Alexa. My parents have Alexa, and it seems like the speech record ability to recognize speech is pretty comparable, but it sounds like the Alexa still has more different items that it works with, in the sense that there's different more light bulbs, more locks, more cameras. I agree, yeah.
Rj Cooper
So I agree, yeah. I agree. Alexa definitely has is the big player at the moment, with Google, second and then Apple, with its home kit, definitely a distant third, but Alexa definitely has the third party support, meaning people like myself that make things for Amazon, for Echo and Google doesn't have as many. But if you go into Bill. Spy, which I use as a litmus test, and you look at their their smart bulbs or their smart jacks, smart plug, about half of them say both Google and Alexa, but almost all of them always say Alexa. Yeah, yeah. Now, now going back to your original question, which was, how does that affect what I do? Since I contend that most of the people with physical limitations are not going to have typical voice patterns, that also means that Google Alexa and Siri will not recognize these people, and that is just a fact, yeah, and that means now you have to make a choice of how to control these devices, either through a Google device, or through an Amazon Echo or by some other method entirely. Yeah, so I make several things that are in the some other method entirely category.
Jayson Davies
And what's that?
Rj Cooper
There's several things that I make that allow a computer that can be operated by Naturally Speaking, which is a very, very dependable speech recognition program for both the Mac and the PC. I make software and hardware that allows the PC to control infrared devices such as entertainment devices. Specifically, it can also control x 10 appliances and other things that plug into the wall directly. But the trick, the last final trick here that I've got to run off to, is, most people don't think of this, but a few have, and that is, you can have your communication device. Let's just say you have an iPad and you're pretty you're pretty good with it. Let's say you're a pro local and a go user. You can have that speak something to Alexa, and Alexa will get it 100% of the time. Oh, well, it's pretty cool. It's Oh, it's really cool. You just program something on your communication device, whatever it is, it comes out, Alexa hears it, and then it's just like somebody spoke the command. It's really slick.
Jayson Davies
That is pretty awesome. I was actually thinking about that while you're talking. So I'm glad you answered that And sorry to anyone out there if we set off your Alexa, but Sorry, not sorry. But anyways, all right. RJ, well, thank you so much for coming on the show. So happy to have you. I'm glad I could get in touch with you and and this was fun. I appreciate it.
Rj Cooper
Well, speaking of getting in touch with me, if I could just say I'm at RJ cooper.com is my website. RJ, at RJ cooper.com is my personal email. One 800 RJ Cooper is my phone. I think that pretty much takes care of it, perfect.
Jayson Davies
And we'll be sure to link to all those on the show notes and put your number on there in case anyone needs to get a hold of you. So yeah, again, I appreciate it. Thank you so much for coming on and can't wait to hear how things are going in the future with you.
Rj Cooper
Very good. Okay, thank you for your time. Take care. Bye.
Jayson Davies
bye. Hey, it's Jason again. Just real quick. Want to say thank you so much for listening to Episode 29 of the OT school house podcast. And also, just wanted to give another shout out to double timed com. Jayson Gonzalez, the creator of double time docs has over 16 years experience as an occupational therapist in school based and pediatric settings. He's seen evaluations written up in states such as Hawaii, New Jersey, California and many in between. He developed double timed docs.com after finding out that it takes any occupational therapist about two and a half hours to actually write a report. So he created this software to help you write evaluations in 30 minutes and be more comprehensive while doing so, be sure to get your free 14 day trial with no credit card required at double timedocs.com. Thanks again. Everyone. Have a great week.
Amazing Narrator
Thank you for listening to the OT schoolhouse podcast for more ways to help you and your students succeed right now. Head on over to otschoolhouse.com Until next time class is dismissed.
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