OTS 37: Preventing & Overcoming Burnout Feat. Erika Del Pozo, OTR/L
- Jayson Davies
- Aug 25, 2019
- 43 min read
Updated: May 13
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Welcome to the show notes for Episode 37 of the OT Schoolhouse Podcast.
In this episode, Jayson interviews Erika Del Pozo, MOT, OTR/L on burnout in healthcare-related professions (yes, that includes school-based OTs too). We discuss everything from what is burnout to how to prevent and overcome burnout. Join in and listen to this episode if you have ever felt like work has gotten the better of you. You won't regret it! Plus, be sure to earn your 1 contact hour of professional development and check out the links for resources below!
Erika Del Pozo, MOT, OTR/L
Erika has practiced in outpatient pediatrics for five years and also has experience working with older adults with progressive neurological conditions. Her special interests include promoting work well-being and burnout prevention in healthcare. She is the CEO and founder of Joy Energy Time, a business dedicated to empowering healthcare professionals to grow in their wellness practices and to become #ChangemakersInHealthcare and advocate to improve the industry.
Erika is also the creator and co-host of the Burnt Out to Lit Up Podcast, a holistic wellness show for healthcare professionals.
Listen in to this episode and earn 1-hour of professional development for doing so, as Jayson Interviews Erika Del Pozo, MOT, OTR/L, on what is burnout and how you can prevent yourself from becoming the next victim of burnout
Objectives for this Professional Development Podcast
Listeners will:
1. Become familiar with what burnout is and is not; including the statistics behind healthcare burnout
2. Identify how burnout is different from depression but why some may confuse the two
3. Identify strategies to prevent and overcome burnout in any workplace environment
Links to Show References:
Have a question for Erika? Visit the Joy Energy Time website at JoyEnergyTime.com
Visit the resource page at JoyEnergyTime.com for 3 free guides about Work Wellness, Mindfulness, and Emotional Wellness.
Sign up to join the Joy Energy Time Club waitlist and be a part of this exciting new venture with like-minded healthcare providers.
If you enjoyed hearing from Erika of the OT School House podcast, be sure to continue the journey with her on The Burnt Out To Lit Up Podcast. Erika, her husband, and each of her guests will have you ready to conquer the healthcare world in no time!
Maslach Burnout Inventory - Human Services Survey (MBI-HSS) is the assessment tool mentioned by Erika in this episode of the podcast. Click on the link to learn more about this tool.
Languages of Appreciation - Read Erika's Blog Post about the Languages of appreciation or read about it in this book from Amazon: The 5 Languages of Appreciation in the Workplace: Empowering Organizations by Encouraging People (Affiliate link that supports the OTSH)
Recommended Reading:
by Melanie Greenberg, PhD
by Daren Hardy
Captivate: The Science of Succeeding with People by Vanessa Van Edwards
The Power of When: Discover Your Chronotype-- and the Best Time to Eat Lunch, Ask for a Raise, Have Sex, Write a Novel, Take Your Meds, and More by Michael Breus, PhD
Be sure to subscribe to the OT Schoolhouse email list & get access to our free downloads of Gray-Space paper and the Occupational Profile for school-based OTs.
Have any questions or comments about the podcast? Email Jayson at Jayson@otschoolhouse.com
Well,
Thanks for visiting the podcast show notes! If you enjoyed this episode be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts
Episode Transcript
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Amazing Narrator
Hello and welcome to the OT school house podcast. Your source for school based occupational therapy tips, interviews and professional development. Now to get the conversation started, here is your host, Jayson Davies, class is officially in session.
Jayson Davies
Hey everyone, and welcome to the OT school house podcast. My name is Jayson Davies, and I am the host of this episode number 37 ot schoolhouse podcast. Thank you so much for joining me today. As you can tell, I'm a little pumped right now. I just got done with the gym, and I am excited to be recording this intro for you all. Today we're going to talk a little bit about burnout, but first I want to say thank you so much to everyone who's been responding to my emails, my Instagram, stories about your case, loads about what challenges you guys are experiencing as we start this new school year. So big. Thank you so much to everyone who's been responding, everyone who's been sharing the podcast. Thank you so much. It's really been amazing just seeing everyone kind of come together around this podcast and really enjoy all the content that's going on. So I'm excited about that, obviously, and I'm just happy to be to be here and to provide you guys with a little bit of knowledge from all around the states. So far, I don't think we've had anyone actually from outside the states yet, but just want to say thank you so much for following along, being there with me and and taking this podcast wherever you go. Today's episode is actually a podcast professional development course, so you will be able to earn one unit of professional development upon listening to the podcast and then going to otschoolhouse.com, forward slash episode 37 that's where you'll see the show notes, as well as the link to purchase this as a professional development if you're listening in on Apple podcast or YouTube or anywhere there is a link, you can probably just click on that link that says Show Notes or episode 37 show notes, and it'll take you to the website right now where you can view all the links and stuff that we talk about in today's episode. When you do purchase that, you'll take a short quiz, and then I will send you a certificate of completion. So thank you to everyone who has already done that. I must admit, it's really cool when I get to send out a certificate of completion to someone who just completed the quiz. Some of those people that have completed the quiz will tell you, you know, I make a little personalized video for them, and just say thank you so much for listening to the podcast and doing all that really cool stuff and going through the quiz and listening. You know, it's just amazing that this is just a new form to get information out, and people are really digging it. So I appreciate that today on the show for that professional development course, we have Erika del Pozo. Erica is actually the host of another podcast that I really recommend that you all listen to, and that is the burnt out to lit up podcast, her and her husband, he's a PT, actually, they host the show, burnt out to lit up. And they also run the website called Joy, energytime.com, another resource I recommend you all to check out. As you know, we are obviously healthcare providers. Even though we work in education, we're healthcare providers, and healthcare providers apparently tend to burn out easily, and I think so do educators. So we're kind of like in a double whammy here. But I'm gonna let Erika give us a lot of information about this. We have some great discussions here in the next hour, so it's gonna be awesome. And you know what? I think that's all I have for you right now at this moment, please enjoy this episode with Erica del Pozo and check out the show notes at ot schoolhouse.com, forward slash episode 37 see you over there. Hey, Erika, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing today?
Erika Del Pozo
I'm doing great. How are you doing?
Jayson Davies
Doing wonderful. Very happy to have you on here today. You've been doing a lot, whether it be podcasting, social media stuff, the lot of stuff going out there, and so I'm so happy to have you on here today. Before we get into today's topic about burnout, I actually want to give you a little bit of a chance to share your career in OT, kind of how you got into the OT world and what you're doing now.
Erika Del Pozo
Yeah, so thanks for having me on your show. My name is Erika. I'm an OT from Miami, and I experienced significant burnout during the first few years of being an OT, so that's something I didn't sign up for, you know, as we all sign up for healthcare, not thinking that can happen to us, but definitely happened to me and the first few years of work, I was working in outpatient pediatrics, actually, not until that long ago when my husband and I moved across the country, but I have mainly been working in outpatient pediatrics with some outpatient older adult in there. So working in with patients that have had strokes and Parkinson's and so have quite a bit of um experience working with with different populations and um I with the burnout I experienced, I can equate it to like how you sometimes fall asleep on your arm. So you know, when you go to sleep at night, you fall asleep on your arm. Time, a few hours go by, and then you'll wake up at three in the morning and you're like, Oh my God, my arm. I can't feel my arm. You know, my arm is tingly. You're trying to, like, get control of your arm, and you're looking at it and doesn't even feel like it's attached to you. And that's how, that's basically what I think about when I think about my experience with burnout. It happened over time, over months, and within a within a span of two and a half years, where I didn't quite understand what was happening, and I would get those moments where I would wake up and realize, oh my god, like, what's happening, and I would feel out of control. And so what happened was that I left a job that was had had sub optimal working conditions, to say the least. And after that, I started to reflect on my experiences. I began to heal and start just working on myself, because that's what I felt like was lacking. And after a lot of personal development and getting into all of the those things, I started to get into business things, and lo and behold, I became an entrepreneur, which is something that I never would have thought I would do. But it was those experiences and that pain that really pushed me to think, wow, you know, if, if I went through that, then I'm not the only one, like, I can't be the only one. And so in 2017 I founded my business, joy, energy, time. And in 2018 I created the burnt OTs little podcast. And as of now, we are media company online. We have some real life events going on with some of our ambassadors around the country hosting healthcare Hangouts. But we have the podcast, we have our newsletter, and we're very active on social media, and we're just trying to empower healthcare professionals to make change in the healthcare system and to provide resources on stress management, burnout and well being. And anyway, here I am today.
Jayson Davies
There you go. Yeah, I love just the social media stuff, because it's not all not everything you post about is directly related to occupational therapists or occupational therapy. It's very broad and it's very lifestyle centric. I feel like it's not just for OT, just for all healthcare, all people in general, which is super cool, but you guys, it's you and someone else, right?
Erika Del Pozo
My husband, he's a physical he's a physical therapist. He's like, behind the scenes, like, he'll edit things and he'll load things and but, yeah, he helps me with that. He helps him with the with the back end stuff.
Jayson Davies
Gotcha. Okay, cool, but, but you guys are just so, just lifestyle centric. Everything on there. It really reflects just a positive outlook on life, not just work, and so that's great. Well, I'm excited to jump into our topic today. It's something that I have heard a lot about. I may even kind of have experienced it, slash maybe am experience a little bit. Both my wife and I, we both work in public education. She's a teacher. I'm an OT obviously, and I think it's something that we both kind of struggle with, and I know a lot of educators in general tend to struggle with it. But before we get into the nitty gritty of burnout, why don't I let you kind of talk about what it is, just a little overview of what burnout is and what it looks like.
Erika Del Pozo
Yeah, so burnout is a psychological syndrome that involves a prolonged response to chronic stressors on the job. So that's what you want to underline and highlight chronic stressors a day at work, here and there. It's over time, acute stressors be turned into chronic fatigue. And you have three main components. You have emotional exhaustion, where you feel like you can't give any more of yourself at a psychological level, you have increased cynicism, you feel distant and detached from your patients or even the profession as a whole, and then decreased self efficacy. So you're questioning your competency, your abilities, you have low confidence in your work. And it's those three things that uniquely make up, make up burnout for what it is. So it's different from just being being depressed or being stressed out. It's these things that are related to work.
Jayson Davies
Gotcha, okay, but so would some of the symptoms then kind of be similar to depression?
Erika Del Pozo
Yes, though. So that's a great question, because where burnout is job specific, and depression is context free. There can be overlap, especially if you are experiencing depression and you also are experiencing conflicts at work. You may be experiencing difficulties at work, whether that be with co workers or your relationship to your work or maybe with your boss. Then burnout is a stepping stone in that process, and it's really hard to kind of tease them out, but they can both be present at the same time.
Jayson Davies
Gotcha. Okay, so are there any stats or anything out there related to burnout, maybe, how frequently people or healthcare providers are experiencing it?
Erika Del Pozo
Yeah. So unfortunately for OTs, there. Aren't that many stats out there, which I hope will change soon, but what I have found is that 35% of OTs in one study experienced high levels of emotional exhaustion, and 43% of them experience high levels of cynicism. But you know, we know looking at healthcare overall, there is a lot of attention and research on physicians and nurses. So for physicians, over half of us physicians are experiencing burnout, a rate nearly double that of workers in other professions, after controlling for hours worked, age, sex and other factors. And in a recent study, 63% of nurses experience burnout, and they're getting a lot of attention, attention, because I know there's a lot more of them that make up the workforce compared to OT and PT, but I know overall in healthcare, they're just healthcare in general, looking at healthcare burnout, there is a lot of research and a lot of stats on that.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, I'd be interested really, to know open up a whole nother field. I mean, specifically, what we're talking about, mostly on this podcast, is the education side, and to see what it is in teachers, because I always hear about teachers lasting few years and then dropping out of the teaching profession. It's actually becoming, I think, somewhat of an epidemic. But I wouldn't be shocked if there's similar rates among teachers and physicians, just because there is so much pressure on you have the sociology I can't even talk right now, you're the pressure of society. You know, with parents and kids. I mean, there's nothing more precious than a kid to a parent, and you were responsible for that kid for six hours a day. It's just a lot of pressure. All right, so what would you say? I mean, you kind of went over three things, but in the real world, what does it look like? What leads someone to be burnt out at work, especially in that healthcare field?
Erika Del Pozo
Yeah. So as humans, we are strongly connected to the concept of work, and we receive satisfaction from work, because if it fulfills our deeper psychological needs for greater purpose and value in this world. So it's no surprise that burnout has entered the picture in our modern world, because we spend a great deal of time at work and in the US, on average, we spend eight to 10 more hours at work compared to workers in Western Europe, and on average, full time salaried workers work 47 hours a week, and 25% of salaried workers work more than 50 hours a week. And we know from research that working more than 50 hours a week is correlated with increased risk for cardiovascular disease, and physicians typically, on average, work more than 51 hours a week, and that was from research. But I can tell you from my experience as an OT I worked over 50 hours a week, and that was just being at work that didn't count documentation at home or during the weekend. And so I worked on average, considering all the work I did at work and away from work, definitely closer to 60 hours. And so it was found that physicians working in specialties requiring more hours reported lower job satisfaction, and then physicians working in specialties requiring fewer hours reported higher job satisfaction. So being a workaholic is something almost that's not even in our control, because it's the settings that we work in that require so many hours. And to answer your question, there are two main paths that lead to burnout that has been found in research. So the first one is an unmanageable workload, and that leads to a greater sense of exhaustion, which leads to greater cynicism and reduced efficacy. So all the things that are burnt out and with an unmanageable workload, I want to point out, it's not just the quantity of the demands, but it's also the quality of the demands. So if someone is doing work outside of their scope of practice, or they're doing things outside of their expectations for what their role is supposed to be, then that is viewed as more burdensome than legitimate tasks. And then another, another really common path to burnout is a mismatch of values between yourself and that of the organization, which leads to all three aspects of burnout in full, which then leads to greater energy and involvement from you. So if there is a mismatch between what I value and what the organization values. A gap is created. And there's a discrepancy between work I want to do and work I have to do, or work that the organization values that I don't value, that doesn't align with me. And so that drains one's energy. And so that kind of leads into that reduced involvement, that reduced efficacy. And then there are other major things that lead to burnout as well, like decreased autonomy at work if you have insufficient rewards. And that isn't just financial, social, emotional rewards. Being appreciated is really important, and in studies that has been shown to correlate. A greater sense of efficacy in a study of OTs actually, and then being bullied at work. So if you're if there's a lack of fairness, if there's injustice, bullying, it can and that is a part of that spectrum. So having that can contribute to burnout. Also, time demands different, um, not having the proper materials you need to do your job well. Um, documentation demands bureaucratic delays. I mean, the list goes on and on, but those are some of the main core things that lead to burnout. And I know this is a long answer, but there's, it's twofold so, so from a per so now, talking from a personal perspective, there are some personal factors that can lead to burnout, or can contribute to burnout as well. So one of the biggest things that can interfere with the person's recovery from work is not being able to psychologically detach. So if you're going home and you're not able to detach or thinking about your patients you're checking into work, or whether it's you know, tele pressure, meaning that you feel pressured or obliged to check into work, or you are thinking about your patients or your stressors at work, then that interferes with your much needed rest and recovery from the stressors at work and other things.
Jayson Davies
So I was just gonna agree with you and say absolutely, yeah, keep on going.
Erika Del Pozo
Yeah, that's a big one, and that's something I experienced firsthand that I wasn't able to psychologically detach. And other personal factors too include quality of sleep and burnout is correlated with insomnia and sleep problems, and so there's a positive relationship between the two of them, and other things include difficulty setting boundaries, deep belly laughs, which is found, which has been found in research. So it has to be a deep belly laugh that turns the parasympathetic nervous system on and turns off the sympathetic nervous system and personality factors. So if you have high levels of neuroticism, you tend to worry a lot, you have Type A personality, then that can facilitate the acceleration of burnout. So it's kind of like a heavy answer, but there are many different extrinsic factors and intrinsic factors that can create a unique cocktail, so to speak, of what leads to burnout in an individual
Jayson Davies
Absolutely, and that's a lot, but I had a few questions that I wanted to bring up. Just, I mean, everything you were saying kind of hit home, like I kind of just you put words on my mouth, really. But what about phone use? What do you think I mean, is phone use having a big impact? Do you think people are taking their phone home, leaving their email on and checking their email, you know, every 10 minutes their work email?
Erika Del Pozo
Yeah, well, that's a form of tele pressure. So if you feel obligated to check into work when you're away from work, then that can interfere with your sleep, your quality of sleep, and that has been shown to be the case. And so Absolutely and we, because of our society, we're expected to be on we're expected to be available. I've been emailed while I've been on vacation to sign off on documentation, and it's unbelievable, you know, just because it's it's this lack of respect for your personal time. And I don't quote me on this, but I know I heard in France that, or somewhere in Europe, that when it hits five o'clock, then, literally, the tables will go up into the ceiling. I heard that. I heard that somewhere. I think I read it or saw it in a video, and so it kind of, it's a very literal signal that work is done. You go home now and you enjoy that time with your with your family.
Jayson Davies
That's really good. I mean, I'm sure it's only as few select businesses, but, yeah, that's really cool that they do that. I want to share some of my own personal experiences here, because it kind of correlates with some of the things you're talking about. Personally, I do have my work email on my phone. However, I use the Microsoft Outlook email for that, so I have it on a specific app. That way I can check my own personal email without getting distracted by the work emails, and I can choose whether or not. And actually, I usually, over summer, especially, I turn off the notifications and the badges on that app so that I don't see whether or not there's an email coming in this this summer, in particular, I made a specific objective not to respond. And, you know, every now and then I would peek and just see what the message was. But I was like, You know what? This is my summer. This is my time. I'm not getting paid right now. I'm not going to respond right now. So that's one of the ways that I kind of just said, You know what I'm done for right now. Come August, whatever day we go back, I will turn on my email and just sit down for a few hours and. On to all the emails, because that's work time. So great way of approaching it. Yeah, and I think, I mean, especially in education, like you said, it's expected, but I mean, a lot of people talk about educators needing to get paid more, but so many educators work when they're not on the clock. I got invited to a work meeting on a date that no one was expected to work. Like the teacher told me, it's like, we're sending out this meeting to schedule IEPs, but no one's getting paid for this. And so like five teachers and people met on campus on a day that they weren't getting paid. And I was like, You know what? No, I'm not going to to partake in this, because if you do it, then you're saying it's okay, and then the district's just going to, you know, want a little bit more of your time next time, potentially. And so yeah, two experiences where I just put my foot down this summer.
Erika Del Pozo
So yeah, I'm proud. I'm proud of you to do that, because you're right, because then that sucks. That sets the expectations for what's acceptable and that be unacceptable. And I that's a great point that you made, so I'm glad that you set those boundaries, because that was one of the personal factors that came into play, was you setting boundaries at work and in your life. And that is one of the biggest that's one of the biggest personal things that can contribute to that sense of experiencing burnout.
Jayson Davies
Absolutely. All right, so we went over some consequences, I think, and consequences, I think we talked a lot about personal consequences. But what about in the workplace? How is this affecting the actual business that you work for and the people that you work with?
Erika Del Pozo
So burnout, in terms of professional outcomes, has been associated with job dissatisfaction, low organizational commitment, absenteeism, presenteeism, poor job performance, intention to leave one's Job, higher rates of turnover, decreased patient satisfaction and dysfunctional relationships with colleagues. So it doesn't just affect you and how you feel, but it affects patients and your organization, yeah.
Jayson Davies
And, I mean, from a business standpoint, you and I are both kind of running businesses. I mean, the last thing I want is someone to be there eight hours, but getting four hours worth of work done or something, you know. And I can imagine that that could be not so great for the productivity of the actual business and the bottom line for the business. So yeah, personally, and taking it home, is there any research about relationships at home with their family, or anything like that? Have you? Have you come about any of that?
Erika Del Pozo
In Research there has been, there has been areas where people that are experiencing burnout that they will take that home with them, and that will spill over into their home life. And so that emotional exhaustion and that low Psychological detachment, think about how that will interfere with someone's home life? What energy are they going to have left when they come home? And I can imagine, and from my experience, it it's not experiencing burnout. It's not an isolated situation where it just happens at work and stays at work. It affects literally every part of your life, and so your relationships, your your your partner, your friends, your family. I don't know to what degree, because I think everyone experience it experiences it in such a unique way, but in one way or another that does spill over into other areas of your life.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, I agree. All right, so you've helped us to understand a lot about burnout so far, kind of the onset of it, and how it can cause some discord, both personally and professionally. So let's dive into what is currently being done about these healthcare professionals. Are there any type of assessments out there? Are there? I mean, Google. I just think of Google when I think of potentially some company that might be trying to combat burnout or something. You know those big companies. Have you heard of any assessment, screening tools, or anyone doing stuff like that?
Erika Del Pozo
Yeah, so that's funny. You brought up Google, because I know big companies in tech and other companies, they have such incredible employee well being strategies, and they have meditation rooms, and they have, they probably have nap rooms, and I know there's breweries inside these, you know, in these offices. But in healthcare, we're very behind in that regard. And one of the biggest assessments out there, it was developed by one of the leading researchers in this field of burnout, Christina mass lash. So the assessment is called the mass last burnout inventory, or MBI, and there's one specifically for healthcare professionals. So it's the MBI, HSS Human Services survey, and there are other ones out there, but honestly, this is for. Me the one I came across the most in the literature, in terms of what assessments were being used to measure burnout in research, there were other ones as well that kind of have some they go along with they go along with it, but they have some differences. But I would, I would recommend this one. I consider that this one to be the gold standard.
Jayson Davies
Great. I will definitely make sure to put a link to that. Show notes will be ot schoolhouse.com, forward slash episode 37 so we'll get some information about that there. All right, so it's August. I think we're recording this on August, 8 or ninth, whatever today is. I just had my first day back at school. Everyone out there, most of the people that listen to this podcast their school or their school occupational therapist, school based OTs and so they're all heading into the workplace right now. We talked a little bit about, you know, disengaging from your phone. You mentioned a big belly laugh. I almost want to ask you for an example of that. But what are some things that you think school based occupational therapists or pediatric OTs can really do to try to prevent that burnout going forward in this, this new year that's starting up here in school.
Erika Del Pozo
So that's a great question, and in terms of preventing burnout, because we're, you know, in healthcare, especially in OTs, we understand the power of prevention. And one of the biggest tools that we can have is that self awareness. So the first thing you could do is to conduct a personal audit, and I'm in the process of coming up with a template for that, because I think that would be really helpful. But a personal audit and thinking about and dissecting the different areas of your life, so thinking about work, thinking about, Do I have the things I need to have at work to be successful, to do my job well, from actual tools, materials, equipment to enough social support to increased autonomy? Do I have these different things that support my well being, that support my performance at work? Do I have strong examples of leadership at work? Do I have opportunities to grow so looking at work as burnout most often, typically stems from the work environment, so I believe that would be a great place to start, and then thinking about yourself and how you cope with stressors, and thinking about, what do you what do you want in life, in terms of your career? Because I think so many of us, you know, we get a job because we get a job, and that can happen to anyone in any career. And I know for OTs, we're virtuous and we but I think sometimes we can get into a job and we don't necessarily have our professional and career goals fully developed, and we're just kind of taking it year by year. So I would encourage you to take a step back and work on those unprofessional goals and do your values align with your organization's values, because that's something that I think a lot of us don't really stop to think about and so, so looking at that, and then the personal factors, like I said, like how, how you're coping with stress, looking at your sleep, the quality of your sleep, are you moving your body, or do you have coping strategies? Do you have a strong social support outside of social support outside of work, and looking at the various aspects of your life, at your habits. And as OTs, we're really good at that, occupational analysis, activity analysis, so looking at our habits, our rituals, and are they de energizing, or are they energizing us? And you can start there and just looking at the different parts of your life and then creating some sort of plan, personally and professionally, to get you on the right path.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, so would you say that all those methods that you just gave us a lot of great information that we can start off with? Would you say that someone is already feeling burnt out? Are those the same recommendations you would give? Or is there any other things that you'd like to say for someone who's already kind of feeling that pressure and feeling like they don't want to go to work anymore?
Erika Del Pozo
Yeah, and that's such a hard place, and I've been there and thinking about how I how I coped with it. In the past, I was using a lot of avoidance to cope with that feeling. I was avoiding my feelings. I was avoiding dealing with how I hated work, and I just wanted just to go to work, and because it was a good pay, it was good place. Everything was fine from that end, but I was miserable, and some things were happening that I didn't align with. And so something I didn't ask myself, that I would ask myself, and something that you should think about, if you are in that place, is thinking about what's the most important thing for you in your life right now. Like, if you could change one thing right now, what would it be, and what is getting in the way of of you achieving what you want most in life and thinking more beyond I hate my job, or, you know, like my job sucks, thinking about i. Okay, let's, let's approach this from engagement coping, let's and engagement coping, there's two. We can break that down into two different sections, so emotion focused, like, for example, if you're stuck in traffic and you're going to be late to work and there's nothing you can do, because that's the one path, and you're going to be late no matter what emotion of focus coping is taking a few deep breaths and just accepting that situation and trying to self soothe yourself in that moment, and then problem, focus is okay. I'm going to I have a problem. I'm going to call in whatever social support I need, or I'm going to do whatever I can to proactively solve this problem. So don't be like me, where I was in disengagement, coping, and I was avoiding the problem, but instead practically address it with that question, like, what is most important to me right now? And I think that will give you that's a great place to start, and that will cue you into, Hmm, maybe I have little autonomy, and that autonomy is impacting my, my well being at work, or maybe I'm not getting paid enough, and I need to ask for a reason that's really impacting my, my well being too. So think about what is it that's really causing you to feel this way? And it could be, it could be 20 different things, or it could just be one thing, but get, get it all out on paper, and write them all down, and then get a highlighter and highlight the things that you I have identified as most important to your well being right now. And you can, little by little, work on those changes, but just start with the most important thing right now.
Jayson Davies
Yeah. And, I mean, I kind of use the similar mindset, you know, things that I can versus I can't control. And just an example, you know, over the summer, I could control whether and I looked on my emails. What I couldn't control is thinking about, you know, what my caseload is going to look like Come August. I had no idea. There's no way I can control it. It was up to the people way above me to figure out my numbers, and I would figure I would worry about that once I could have a say in it. Come today, basically. But another thing I wanted to touch upon you mentioned it a few minutes ago, was growth, and I think that's something that impacted me, because as occupational therapists in the schools, we're, I mean, we're OTs, that's what we are. There is no real position in most in most states, I believe that we could go up like we can't become an administrator or something like that. And so that's something that almost that has a direct correlation on me starting the OT school house and the podcast, because I was like, I'm an OT most pay scales are five to seven years. So I'm in my seventh year, so I'm pretty up there. As far as the pay scale, I'm kind of topping out. And then I was like, well, now where do I go from here? And so growth was a big thing that I couldn't get at work, which ultimately led me to really start the OT school house. Is that kind of what you mean by growth?
Erika Del Pozo
Or that's a great thank you for bringing that uprepancies, glass ceilings, as far as professional growth, that is a huge thing for OTs, and I can give you an example. So when I was a student in field work, I was in an inpatient rehab hospital, and there was a PT, she was a staff member, and I was, you know, I was a student, and I observed her. I would overhear talk about this. PT, that, you know, she would go and do her job. Had normal 40 hour week, but she was becoming an RN. She was taking classes at night, on the weekends, and she was getting her RN, register nurse, right? Yeah, yeah, registered nurse. And I was, I didn't understand why, like, and I asked my my fieldwork educator, why is she getting that? And then she told me, because she wants to be a rehab director, and we can't be that as OTs and PTs, you have to be a nurse or a doctor. And I was like, That's so silly. Like, are you serious like and that was the only way she could put herself in a position to advance. And I think for OTs and PTs, you're right, we're limited to opening a private practice, and many of us may not want to do that, but it may be the only option for growth. In terms of moving up. There aren't a lot of opportunities to move up, and so that is one thing. But when I talk about growth, I talk a lot about, like, personal growth and and there's a lot of different dimensions of wellness that you can that you can experience growth. And for me, that was what really helped me to become more assertive and confident in myself, and that's what helped me to kind of heal from from this experience. So growth, you know, professionally and personally is, is both important.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, and I think a lot of people also use continuing education as a way to build growth, build confidence and fulfillment. Even you know, you go and get a certificate. It, and you just feel so much more empowered by what you can take and help your patients with. So another way to to grow. Mm, hmm, all right. Um, well, let's see here. Moving on over. Do you think that when one is burnt out, that they might be able to fake it until they make it? Quote, unquote, you know that whole thing, you know, just smile, and eventually you'll become happy. Is that real or is that? I guess we could call it almost myth or real or whatever. What would you say?
Erika Del Pozo
Myth Busters like that show exactly so fake it till you make it. I think in this case, can only take you so far because the emotional exhaustion component of the syndrome, you are unable to give anything more, and that's what it feels like. So it your energy is already compromised and and if you're doing work that's misaligned, your values between the values of the organization, and you have an unmanaged workload. And there's other things into play, then your your precious energy is being diverted and drained. And so I think it's really hard to hide it. And, you know, we do a great job when we're working with patients, because I can speak from my, you know, from my own experience, I want when I'm with patients, I'm on, I'm on, especially with kids, you have to be 100% on, and and, but when you know, in between those patients, you know during breaks, when you're entering work, leaving work, there's other times where you just really feel it, and you can only do that so much, and people that kind of go on, and they have burnout, and they don't really, first of all, they might not even be really aware of it. It could have become their new normal. And when something's normal to you, you don't challenge it. So if you, over time, get accustomed to what burnout is, then, unfortunately, some people can just live through it. Put output the bare minimum at work. And you've seen, I've seen that. I've seen clinicians, practitioners that are more experienced than I have, and I know what it's like for someone to be engaged and someone to be burnt out, and it's you can only fake that for so long. And I like to think of it as like boxing. So let's say I'm a boxer, and I train. I get enough sleep, I eat well, I have an amazing coach, and I'm outside of the gym, I'm working hard and I'm working on myself. But when I walk in the gym, or when I walk into a match and I'm 100 and whatever pounds, and there's an 1000 pound man or whatever, it's intimidating, and chances are I'm not, I'm gonna lose that match. So I kind of equate that to going into work. You know, no matter if you work on the personal growth and then the per and personal development, good, good for you. You focus on having an energizing life. You focus on getting plenty of rest and sleep, and let's say you have great habits and routines. But if you get into work and the conditions are terrible, you know that's not going to support you, you're not going to thrive, and you're not going to grow. And there's, like we talked about many different things that can make that happen. And so at the end of the day, you have to decide, is this place, is this place of employment, going to support me long term is, or am I going to burn out and turn into one of those practitioners that is just giving little to nothing, and you have to decide for yourself, and it does take a lot of awareness. So don't feel bad if you've got into that place. If you know you're producing the minimum output. Don't judge yourself now, because it happens to the best of us. It did happen to me, so just take a step back, reassess, and then go from there.
Jayson Davies
Yeah. And so a little while ago, I asked you kind of about assessment tools, and I mentioned Google real quick. But what do you see as teams doing within the workplace to prevent burnout. We kind of mentioned, you know, kind of Google having some sort of Nap Room, or something like that meditation room. But what are you seeing that may be more realistic, or are you seeing anything?
Erika Del Pozo
Some factors that at work that were that brought the team together? I did experience some in some cases, and in one place where I worked, I could say there was a high sense of unity and community, and I did really appreciate that. And there was a lot of fun to be had. For Halloween, we dressed up the entire week, and we had themes, and we were really into it, and those things really made work enjoyable. And but there are, you know, things that team first of all, your team communication is really important. And so this is a quote from the Harvard Business Review. The single most important factor in team success or failure is the quality of relationships on the team. And so when I started to get. Into burnout, I started to realize how important the team is and team communication. And, you know, looking back, yeah, I felt good during that time, but it was because we had that strong sense of community. And so one of the things that can facilitate burnout is a lack of community and having de energizing ties. So you don't have to answer this out loud. Jayson, but have you ever gone to work and you ask someone for advice over someone else that has less knowledge, but because you like them more? Oh, yeah. Like, yeah. Like, that's happened, that that happens, and that's happened to me, where you because as humans, we want to seek an interaction that makes us feel good and and so having that those de energizing ties at work can facilitate increased turnover, can facilitate decreased motivation at work. And so effective team communication can be. There's different ways to different ways to do that. And one of the things that I really like is showing the work, like showing appreciation languages at work. So have you heard of that before?
Jayson Davies
Yeah, we, at my previous job, we did like the four different colors, whatever. And people, they appreciate different things. You know, some people appreciate nice language. Some people appreciate thank you notes. So is that kind of what you're talking about, or is there something?
Erika Del Pozo
Yeah, yeah. It's acts of service. So if and you can usually tell what someone's appreciation language is by how they show appreciation to others, and I think this is important and not to be overlooked, because it's these little acts of gesture and gratitude throughout the day that add up. And if that isn't happening, and if people are short with each other, or there's miscommunication, or there's, you know, just this mentality where I just do my work and I don't really, you know, interact with anyone, then that can, that can add to this greater sense of, you know, lack of community, so being intentional about showing each other, that you appreciate them, and it's these little things that have to be these big things, just the little daily things matter and understanding someone's unique personality matrix. And there's quizzes online that can help you to identify that. But let's say I like a lot of details, and I like I prefer a manual when you tell me something, whereas you prefer quick bullet points, quick takeaways, just give me the most important information. There could be a lot of conflict and communication, because I feel like you're not listening because you're not doing it my way. And so when you have these sorts of different personalities, and there's no good or bad, we all have different it's like the Big Five personality ocean so openness, conscientiousness, extroversion, agreeableness and neuroticism. We have to understand when we're working with people, we spend a lot of time at work, and so we have to make sure that we're doing our best to meet people in the middle, or they can meet us in the middle, or we can figure out how to work together, speaking to each other's a unique personality matrix so that we can have that effective communication.
Jayson Davies
Yeah. And then conversely, what do you think there are things? What do you think are some things that maybe groups of people do at work that facilitates burnout or facilitates feelings that lead to burnout?
Erika Del Pozo
So in one study, someone in a healthcare setting, people that complained about feeling burnt out to other people infected them with those feelings of burnout. So burnout is thought to be more of a contagious group phenomenon than it is an individual one. So one of the biggest things is complaining. And you know, it's important to have a safe space where you can share. Okay, maybe I had a bad patient. I had a bad day. But you know, if it's complaining for the sake of complaining, and it's always this negative energy around your interactions on a regular basis, you know, having that work BFF can be great. But if you guys are always, um, focusing on the negative things happening at work, talking behind other people's backs, and that can be a source of stress, and you may think you're bonding with each other because you have the gossip and all that stuff, but it's actually adding to this false sense of community. And so, you know, falling into those traps at work. There's actually names for it, like corrosive trap, complacency trap. So if you and we all play an important role in this, so if you and your team there's that negative energy, then that is, those are one of those things that can lead to this sense of burnout, because it's it's it's contagious, it's spreading. And so you have to do something different. You have to flip that script and add ways to mobilize energy in a positive way.
Jayson Davies
That's funny. I'm actually kind of scrolling through your your Instagram account right now, and I see one of your posts that you know, you do a lot of those little the words, just like short quotes. They're not really quotes, but. Little SANEs. And the one I'm looking at right now is the burnout is contagious, exactly what you just kind of said. And honestly, that's probably going to be the one thing that I'm going that's going to stick in my mind today, just because you just called me out because I was guilty of that today. So, yeah, I'm going to have to that's one thing that's going to stick out in my mind today is, you know, being being positive. You know, even though things might not always be going, going so great to be positive and and have an uplifting, uplifting spirit, I guess about about work and and take the take care of the things that I can control. All right, so in preparing for some of these questions, I also did look at your Instagram. I just, I always see your Instagram, I love it, but one of the themes that I've seen on your Instagram is post about not comparing yourself to others. And I love, I would love for you to share a little bit about the effects of comparing yourself to others, whether it be in person or maybe even on social media.
Erika Del Pozo
Yeah, and I talk about this a lot, um, because, you know, in the 90s, when we grew up, we we've always done it. It's just how, how it we do. It changes. And so in the 90s, you know, we compare ourselves to the models we see in magazines or to the athletes we see on TV. But now we compare ourselves to quote unquote, you know, influencers and people that aren't necessarily celebrities, but have quote unquote famous accounts, whatever you whatever you classify as, you know, as famous or popular and and so I think in the healthcare niche on specifically Instagram, there's a lot of these hyper, polished looks with the perfect scrubs, and you don't look at like you're tired. So you must be a new grad, right? Because, and it's and this, this false glamorization of medicine and healthcare that, for some people, is like, you know, you look like that, but I had, I feel like I'm in the worst place I could ever be right now, in my job. And like, you can compare yourself to those people that look glamorous, and they have the perfect scrubs and and they they're so in love with the the field, and you feel like, well, I'm not and so there must be something wrong with me. And so this, you know, with just like we know the the models on magazines, whatever you know on billboards, they're they're photoshopped. We have to know that you know what we see on Instagram or social media may look real, but we choose what we want to show and so don't compare compare yourself to others that maybe they're this, maybe they have a huge ot platform online, but maybe that's not what you want to do. But maybe I don't know. We have all these different ways of making ourselves feel inadequate. And so don't compare yourself. Just take it with a grain of salt. And if you find yourself that you're relying too much, if you're checking social media too much and it's making you feel bad, you need to do that. Could be a part of your audit. You know, am I checking this too much? How is it making me feel? Do I need to unfollow or mute people and then reassess? And maybe that has to do with how you're viewing it. You know how you're viewing people? Because, you know, I think for the most part, the healthcare community on Instagram, for the most part, from what I've seen, you know, they have good intentions, but it's it could be in how different people portray themselves that may make other people feel like less than or they don't have it all. And that's no one has it all. We just have to understand that.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, definitely agree with you 100% on that. What about in the workplace and comparing yourself? Maybe you're comparing yourself to that other occupational therapist that's somehow managing 99% productivity, or that other ot that just always seems to have it going for him?
Erika Del Pozo
Yeah, you You never know what someone is is going through. And as a student, one of my field work educators, I thought she had it all, actually one someone in the clinic, I thought she had it all like she was young. She had a few years under her belt, and she looked like she was like the best ot on planet Earth. And then I overheard her, you know, she's like, I eat ice cream for dinner every night, and I'm miserable, and I'm single, and I'm like, wow, you know, like, you just don't know what people are going through. And especially in healthcare, like, like, you know, with kids, we always have to be on, and so we could always feel like we're on. And people you might not really get to know someone, or they're they may not be showing to you their true selves. And so if you envy someone, think about why you envy them. Do you envy them for their experience? Do you envy them for how they deal with difficult patients? And you know you can take that as an opportunity to to learn from them. And I think you know, in that way, envy can be a little healthy, you know, and you know, you have to decipher what is healthy and unhealthy, and thinking about maybe those are attributes I want, but I'm not there yet, and maybe they could be a mentor to me, or I can learn from them. And so you can use it like that.
Jayson Davies
Yeah. Definitely. So I want to wrap up here shortly. But another topic that I know you're kind of interested in is emotional intelligence. And talking a little bit about we'll just start off with what is emotional intelligence. We'll just start off with that first, and then we'll dive into it a little bit.
Erika Del Pozo
Emotional intelligence is the way in which people process emotions and how they identify, express, understand and regulate and use their emotions. So it has been shown in research that people with high emotional intelligence or Ei, they also have high resiliency and high optimism. And there was one study that found that the higher the emotional intelligence in a group of of PTS, speech therapists, OTs, doctors and nurses. The higher the EI, the lower the burnout. Individuals with high traits of emotional intelligence, they're more likely to appraise stressful situations as a challenge rather than a threat, and they are more confident that they can cope with their with those situations, and so that overall ends up with lower reactivity, stress wise, in terms of psychological, like your mood and also physiological. So it's pretty interesting. And yeah, I know we as OTs, especially in pediatrics, we may help kids regulate their emotions. And we also have to think about how we how we are aware of our emotions, and do we regulate our own emotions?
Jayson Davies
I mean, I think of something like general writing or something or so, there's some different strategies that maybe you recommend for people that just want to kind of check in with themselves on their emotions, right?
Erika Del Pozo
So this was something I had a huge problem with, and I would just jump to the worst conclusion, and I and sometimes I still struggle with that, where I get or I face a problem, or I face a stressor, and I have high emotional reactivity, and I know that's something I'm still working on, but there is, you know, based on the research, I came up with an acronym. And it may not be the best or most memorable, but it's, it's savvy. It's S, A, B, I so I have a friend, Sabrina. Sometimes I call her savvy, so savvy. So the first thing is, stop, stop, and think what's really pushing my buttons here, because, you know, we have been hardwired maybe a certain way so a certain stressor can elicit a certain response, but this is an awareness tool to stop and think what actually is pushing my buttons here, A is, why am I reacting so strongly? And it could be a certain type of patient that sets you off, that you may think, you know, I can't work with these type of patients, but maybe it's they make you feel like you're not confident in your skills, whatever. I'm just using that as an example. So why get to the root of why you are reacting so strongly? B, what's the best or worst that could happen in this case, and then I How important will this be tomorrow? So this can be maybe a rift you have with your co workers. If they did something, they perhaps ate your lunch, which I don't think whatever happens, but I'm just trying to think maybe, maybe they you, you put a yogurt, and, you know, they, for some reason, thought it was theirs, but you were that was your afternoon snack, and it's not there anymore. So does this always happen? Was this so a one time mistake? Why? You know, think about how, why am I reacting so strongly? So that's the A Why am and then I tried to make this somewhat memorable with savvy. And then what's the best or worst that can happen? And then how important will this be? So a week from now, even the next day, won't be that important that she ate your yogurt? Um, and then so just thinking about what's worthwhile in terms of holding on to. And when you think about it, there's a lot of things that aren't worth holding on to, but we do. We hold on to them. We hold on to stressful events. We replay things in our minds. We think about, you know, we can really sit and dwell in that anger if we are allow ourselves to. And so that a lot of awareness techniques can really be helpful. And one of the best things is mindfulness. So if you're mindful of the situation, and then you can stop and think about, you know, the going through that, that checklist of questions I just said, that can be helpful. But then journaling is another fabulous tool that I use, that you know might not be able to help you in that moment, but over time, if you're journaling in the morning or at night, there was study that nurses that were journaling at the end of the study had lower levels of burnout and higher levels of satisfaction. And so it can really be a helpful tool and to diving. Deeper into some of your emotional triggers, and thinking about more useful coping strategies and journaling, in and of itself, is very calming for me, and so it has added so much to my life.
Jayson Davies
Gotcha, all right, I got one more for you. Off the off, the questions that I sent you originally, and it's about workload. And I think that is something I mean, whether or not you're a teacher, an OT whether or not you're in education or if you're in a skilled nursing facility, everyone struggles with workload, I feel like and so what are some ways that you've gone about, I guess, being proactive when you are given such a high workload?
Erika Del Pozo
So yeah, workload is one of the biggest things that can lead to burnout, an unmanageable workload, and like I said, it's the quality and the quantity, and you have to question what is in and out of your control, because a lot of times we may think that's out of our control, but there was one time where I hit that wall early on with burnout, where I was able to talk to the owner of the clinic, and we agreed that we're gonna cut some hours from my schedule to make my workload more manageable. And that was something that I didn't think I could ask like because I was new I was a new grad, so I didn't think I can make that change, but we adapted two of my mornings into just documentation time. Even though it was unpaid, it was still time where they weren't allowed to schedule patients for me. And I was so relieved by that, because I got to a point where I hit that, as I call it, like a burnout breaking point, and then I came to this realization, it was like the arm analogy, where I felt like I was drowning, I felt like I was out of control, like everything was out of control. I had so much paperwork that it was I couldn't sleep at night, because for one evaluation I completed, there was like seven more and and so I did speak with my manager. And there were times in that outpatient pediatric clinic where there were, we had re evaluations every six months, and there were some months where I had one or two, and then there were other months where there was, like 15, and it just happened to be the plan of care, you know, when it ended. And that was out of my control, because I can't control when planet carriers end, and it was very difficult for me. But if you I also learned that if I had too much on my plate, and another OT, maybe she didn't have any that month, and it only because of the patience we see that happened, I could go to her, she could go to me and be like, Hey, can you please do these two re evals just to help me out? And this, like that, that huge teamwork component, and that comes from a place of trust. I do have that basic fundamental trust, that psychological safety, that you feel comfortable going to someone, or are they going to snitch and say, well, so and so they can't handle it and but, you know, I just, I feel like settings like that are very hostile, and there's not that strong unity. So hopefully you're at a place where you can balance some of that workload a little bit so it becomes manageable, and it takes courage to set those boundaries, and that's something I didn't know I could do until I did them.
Jayson Davies
So, yeah, yeah, completely agree. All right. Well, that was a lot of information in a short amount of time. I hope everyone, I mean, I'm sure everyone got a lot from that. It goes to show too, because you're not a school based OT, but everything that you say is so applicable to a school based OT, and it's applicable to basically anyone in the workforce. So yeah, really appreciate that. Before I let you go, is there anything else that you'd like to share about burnout, or about how to how to cope.
Erika Del Pozo
So I think for someone listening, if they want more resources and things that you can look over your on your own time and different strategies and tools. We have a lot on our website that's joy, energytime.com, and also our podcast, the burnt out to lit up podcast, and this is my whole mission, is, because this topic is so complex, and there's so many different avenues you can take to approach this and to come to this place where you have the highest sense of well being at work and in your personal life. This is, this is really what my work is about. So going to our website, listening to our podcast, and then we have a newsletter, which is, I received such wonderful feedback from my subscribers recently, and they said it helps them feel like they're not alone. And that's really powerful for me, because coming from so many different people, it's like, I think we feel alone in this journey. We feel like we must be the only ones going through burnout, because our co workers look fantastic, but you don't know if they're going through it as well, and you know they're just kind of going through the motions to get by. But like I said. Can only figure to me make it so far, and so think about yourself. Take care of yourself right now. Don't wait for a bad, something bad to happen at work, kind of like, I'm from Florida, so we have hurricanes. And you know, we would prepare for, if it's hurricane season, like now August hurricane season, we would kind of have everything ready just in case, and then have lots of water and batteries. And then when a hurricane does come, they're not sudden, so we still have a little a few days to prepare. But nevertheless, like the whole point, don't just wait for an emergency to happen. Be prepared. So equip yourself with the personal growth tools. Work on your personal or, sorry, your professional goals, what you want in your career, focus on doing things that bring you joy, that don't necessarily have to have an end product. So I think as adults, we forget this, and we see kids, and we play with kids, and especially in therapy, but do we do anything like that in our own lives for the sake of it? And that's something that I'm guilty of. I want to start dancing again, not because I want to be a professional dancer like I used to want to be, but just because I enjoy dance. And I think so, just finding joy in your life, wherever that may be, is is a great place to start.
Jayson Davies
Absolutely, all right, Erika, well, thank you so much for joining us today. I really appreciate everything that you said. And yeah, I can't wait to share and share for everyone to hear this. It's going to be awesome, and everyone be sure to check out, burnt out, to lit up. Or did I say that? Right? Yes, anyways, having fun here on the OT schoolhouse podcast. And be sure to check out Joy energy time, Instagram, Twitter, the website, right is joy energytime.com and we will also put all the links on the show notes@otschoolhouse.com forward slash episode 37 so thank you Erika, and I hope you enjoy the rest of your evening. Thank you, Jayson, all righty, take care. All right. Thank you everyone for listening. A big shout out to Erika for coming on, taking the time to spend about an hour with me to record this for you all. Hope you really appreciate that. I hope you do take some time in your life for yourself, away from work, turn off the emails and all that good stuff. Be sure to check out the show notes at ot schoolhouse.com, forward slash episode 37 where you will also have the opportunity to purchase this as a professional development course and earn one contact hour of professional development for your NBC ot renewal. So check that out, and we'll see you here next time on the OT school house podcast, take care. Bye, bye.
Amazing Narrator
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