OTS 50: Landing a School-Based Occupational Therapy Job Feat. Amanda Clark, OTR/L
- Jayson Davies
- May 17, 2020
- 51 min read
Updated: Jun 3
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Welcome to the show notes for Episode 50 of the OT Schoolhouse Podcast.
In this episode, Jayson hosts fellow occupational therapist, Amanda Clark, to talk about the differences between a contract school-based job and a district school-based job. After we identify the differences, we talk about how to land your first, or perhaps your fourth School-based Occupational Therapy job.
This podcast does not qualify as a Professional Development Podcast. You can learn more about how to earn professional development credits through the OTSH Podcast for your OT/COTA renewal certification here!
Links to Show References:
TYPES OF OT JOBS
Most common
District, Contract, County/SELPA (California Special Education Local Plan Areas) as they are called in California
Contract Jobs
Working for a private company that contracts with a school district - working for someone who is getting paid to have you work at a district
Pros
Mentorship opportunities
Salary and benefit negotiations are more common
Travel options
More job opportunities over a larger distance if you are willing to move
More autonomy
COTA jobs are few and far between district jobs, but contract companies often hire assistants.
May be opportunities to move up in the company beyond being a school OT
Cons
May feel out of the loop with the district employees or changes in policy
Benefits may not be as good as in a district.
May work in varied districts/locations (could be a pro)
Access to supplies, equipment, buildings, and even a space to work can be a challenge.
Hourly or PRN positions are very common in contract positions. Unless your district is a staggered year-round model, you will make less or even no money during the summer months.
Your caseload is more likely to fluctuate as a contractor. Maternity coverage is a common reason districts hire contractors.
District/County jobs
Working directly for the county education dept. Or a specific district.
Pros
Salary vs. hourly
Benefits tend to be good
May have more opportunities to collaborate and provide trainings
Cons
Limited opportunities to “move up” due to not having a credential
Limited school budgets
WHERE TO FIND A JOB
EdJoin is a national portal, but most postings are in California
Go to the district websites you wish to work for
Linkedin
Talk to friends and colleagues.
Referral bonus
NECESSARY DOCUMENTS
Resume
2-3 current letters of recommendation
Letter of intent
OT License and Registration
Drivers license and Proof of insurance
Copy of your driving record
CPR Certification
Recent TB test
Transcripts
PREPARING FOR THE INTERVIEW
Research the district a little bit
Practice answering possible interview questions
What is the OT's role in an IEP?
What is an IEP?
What is IDEA and ADA?
Understand what FAPE means
How might you collaborate with teachers to support students?
Understand best practices in regards to the delivery of service: collaborative, consultation, and direct and when each is or is not appropriate.
Be prepared to describe what a typical session would look like…
How would you explain why you are decreasing services to a reluctant parent? - hint... the key phrase they want to hear is “least restrictive environment”
Not just OT questions - Questions about overcoming obstacles, ethical dilemmas, working as part of a team, as well strengths and weaknesses are almost always a given.
Know OT assessments used in the school setting.
Know programs used in the school setting (e.g. Handwriting Without Tears)
Likewise, prepare questions that you may have for the interview panel should you be given the opportunity.
AFTER THE INTERVIEW
Negotiations
Benefits
CEU Stipends/allowances & material allowances
Be sure to subscribe to the OT School House email list & get access to our free downloads of Gray-Space paper and the Occupational Profile for school-based OTs.
Have any questions or comments about the podcast? Email Jayson at Jayson@otschoolhouse.com
Well,
Thanks for visiting the podcast show notes! If you enjoyed this episode be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts
Episode Transcript
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Amazing Narrator
Hello and welcome to the OT school house podcast, your source for school based occupational therapy tips, interviews and professional development. Now to get the conversation started, here is your host, Jayson. Davies class is officially in session.
Jayson Davies
Hello everyone. And welcome to the OT school house podcast. And also, welcome to June. We have made it through another school year. This is probably one of the hardest school years we've ever had to make it through, but we have made it through another school year. Thank you for joining me today. I really appreciate you all being here again. My name is Jayson, and I am the host of this show. I also run the OT schoolhouse.com website where I blog a little bit, but mostly it's about this podcast and providing resources and so, yeah, that's a little bit about me. If this is your first time listening to this show, this is episode number 50, which is crazy to now see that we're on episode 50. It's taken about two years to get to 50 episodes, recording every other week or so, with a little hiatus back in December, with everything that was just going on. But I'm so excited that we are here and today, because we are at the end of a school year, looking forward to our next school year, we're going to talk about getting hired. We're going to talk about where to find a job. We're going to talk about what documents you're going to need in order to get hired or even to apply. We're going to talk about how to prepare for your interview. And then we're going to talk about the differences between contract as well as in House District jobs. We're actually going to start with that, and then we're also going to talk a little bit about pay benefits negotiations and all that good stuff. For once you actually get past the interview process. And the really cool thing about today is actually I'm bringing on a very special guest. Her name is Amanda Clark, and she's an occupational therapist that I work with. Both of us have recently gone through the whole hiring process and looking for a job and looking for a job, and so we're pretty we have that fresh in our minds, and so we're going to kind of throw at you what we have gone through. Quick disclaimer is everything that we talk about today is our experiences, and we are Southern California based occupational therapists, so that's what you're going to hear. But I can only imagine that it might be a little bit different, but probably pretty similar throughout the rest of the country of America. So we're going to give you our experiences, and just to throw it in there, no matter what other people might say about occupational therapists, we are not job getting experts right. We do not help people get hired, typically, especially in our realm. We're school based OTs. So despite what other people might think when they hear the term occupational therapist, myself and Amanda, we are school based OTs. We do not know every single thing about hiring, but we do have some experiences to share with you all. So without any further ado, please help me welcome my colleague and fellow occupational therapist, Amanda Clark, hey, Amanda, welcome to the OT school house podcast. How are you doing today?
Amanda Clark
Doing great. Thanks for having me. Jayson, yeah, of course.
Jayson Davies
I'm excited to have you on for everyone listening out there. You have no idea, but Amanda had no idea she was going to be on this podcast until about 48 hours ago, and it's pretty awesome. I'm excited that she's here. I hope she's excited.
Amanda Clark
Yeah, I'm really not sure how you talk me into this, but I'm thinking it's gonna be fun.
Jayson Davies
So I did a little bit of sweet talking. I even told her. I was like, See, she was talking, she was talking a little bit about this. I was like, I already sound like I'm listening to a podcast right now. It's awesome.
Amanda Clark
And I felt like I was getting caught a little bit excited.
Jayson Davies
No, it's awesome. We're gonna have a good time today. I'm super excited to have her. I work alongside with Amanda, and she's actually been at the district that I've been at for a year now. I was there for two years, and so both of both of us, have kind of gone through the hiring process, not frequently, but recently. And so we kind of know this, know this a little bit, so we're going to talk about that. But first we want to talk a little bit about the types of different school based ot jobs. So actually, I'm going to leave this up to you real quick. Then, Amanda, you want to share real quick, what are some of the common school based ot jobs.
Amanda Clark
So with school based. OT jobs, you can either be working for a contractor, and that can be somebody who runs their own private company, and they contract with the schools, and then what you do is you work for that person, and they set up the contract with the school, and you go to the school, but you're not a district employee. You can also work directly for the district. And then there are also county jobs. And Jayson, you want to go over the county jobs?
Jayson Davies
Yeah, I'll talk about that. We have county jobs, and we also have what's called the SELPA, which is the California Special Education local plan areas, and those are also county employees, but it's slightly different. But anyways, what the county and SELPA? The employees do or the occupational therapist that work for them, they kind of help the school districts who may not have their own occupational therapist. And so for those smaller districts that might be more in the rural areas, who don't have a full time caseload available, they might either a use a contract company like Amanda was just talking about, who might you know that contractor may be there for two days and then at a different district for three days, but the SELPA or the county can also provide that service. So it's similar to a contract gig in the sense that you're working in a district, but you don't work for that district, except you are a public employee versus a contractor like you're talking about. You are working for a private company that is basically, well, they're making money off of you working for the district. Let's just call it what it is. So, yeah, all right, so I think we should talk a little bit about the pros and cons of the two big ones, and that is the contractor job and the district job. And so you've worked for a contractor, right?
Amanda Clark
Yeah, I've worked for a couple of different um companies that were not just contracting with schools, but they also had other avenues as well, whether it be, you know, just ot in the clinic, also speech, um, PT, hippotherapy. So they were companies that did a lot of different things, okay?
Jayson Davies
And I worked for a contractor my first year as a school based OT, and it was different. And that's what's so interesting about contract jobs, is that they're all very, very different. Mine was specifically school based, and so I was at the school. In fact, I worked for one district through that contractor the entire time, full time, and so that just kind of makes our first point, honestly, is that all contractors are very, very different, and so you never know, and you really, I would highly suggest, and we'll get into this a little bit more, is that you research the contractor that you are actually looking into. And if you know anyone that works for them, you might want to just ask them what it's like. What are the pros and what other cons? And with that, let's talk about some pros. First of a contract gig. What did you enjoy about your contract gig?
Amanda Clark
So for me, I feel like the pros are the fact that there's a lot more flexibility for you. If you're someone who isn't necessarily a person who wants to work full time, it's a great place to be, because you can work as many or as few hours as you want. A lot of contractors give you a lot of autonomy. So they'll allow you to control your schedule. They'll allow you to control the hours of the day that you work. Taking vacations is kind of up to whenever you want to do those things. So there's a lot of freedom in that. And I find that to be a big pro working for the contractors that I worked for, and it's obviously not the same for everyone, but that was a big, a big plus for me was that flexibility.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, and I don't know about you, but I remember when I was first getting that job as a contractor, one thing they lured me in, although I never really took advantage of it is the travel opportunities. And you know, there are travel therapists out there, and a lot of times travel therapists are contract therapists, and what that means is that they might be in a contract for 12 weeks, or maybe up to six months, or something like that, in one location. It could be Washington, DC, and then with the same company, they're able to move across the state, to California and work in a different position for 12 to six or six months, or something like that. And so that's something that's kind of cool. If that's your personality and that's what you enjoy, traveling and whatnot, that would be a pretty cool perk.
Amanda Clark
Yeah, that's I have some friends that do that, and they really enjoy it, and they're traveling the world, living our life, you know? And if that's something that is attractive to you, then, yeah, contractors, it's a good place to start. I also feel like it's a good place to start. You know, the companies that I worked for as a new grad, because you did get the clinic experience, you got the school experience, we got to be able to the hippotherapy was another huge, you know, one for me that was a lot of fun, kind of a dream come true. But you know, that has built me up to be such a more well rounded therapist. I also had the opportunity to be mentored by a lot of amazing therapists who helped build me up. And then as the new people came in below me, I became their mentor. And by doing that, it helps to increase your knowledge as well, because you have to sort of solidify what you know into words, which is so important, especially when you're having to defend yourself in an IEP right, to be able to say, Hey, I know that. Why this is this way, not just because I know, but because I have a way to explain that in words people can understand. So I feel like that was a really great opportunity as well. And I recommend that highly coming out of school, if you're interested in schools that you know, these sort of clinics that do everything can can really help you to become very well rounded.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, that also sounds like a good way just to. Dip your toe into the water and see where you want to be. And you might find out that school based is a good place, or maybe you enjoyed the clinic. Or maybe you, I mean, sometimes I've also heard with contractors is that, like you said, you kind of dip your toe in different areas, but then maybe that one, that one employment opportunity, or that one site that you're working for as a contractor? Well, they decide to hire an OT full time, and they already know you, and maybe you just kind of work your way into that position. I know some contractors have, like, a non compete clause, so you got to be a little careful about that. But it could happen. Just saying, so you had, you had actually added something on here. What was that? Is that there's always a ways around it. Yeah, yeah. Always find a good lawyer. No. Anyway, you actually wrote something down here that I really wanted to address is Coda jobs, as far as district versus contractors.
Amanda Clark
Yeah, Coda jobs are hard to find in the schools. I am not 100% sure why. That is because Jayson, you and I both see the relevance and how much they can really help not only the students, but us and so, you know, a lot of the school districts want just ot ours. So if you're interested in schools, you're going to probably want to look more into contractors as a CODA, because you'll have a much better opportunity, and then when you get that experience, you can then apply for those few district jobs, because there is a lot of competition for those Coda district jobs. So reality is is, as a new grad, it's probably not going to be an easy job to get.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, and I think I said this in the intro. But everything that we're saying is based on our experience. And we are Southern California Occupational Therapist, and I have no idea what the coda job market looks like in Illinois or anywhere. And so we're kind of talking a little bit about our experiences in Southern California. One thing that I've seen, one thing that I've seen with OTs that take on a contract, contract gig, or contract job, is sometimes they're able to actually move up in the contractor realm. I think you might be able to hear my dog barking in the background. That's okay. This is a dog friendly podcast. But anyways, yeah, so you can actually, if you are the type of person that might have the desire to move up and maybe not always be an OT, maybe you have a business mind or something. If you start at the ground floor with a contractor, and you get to really know that contractor, whether it's small or a big one, there might be potential ability for you to move up and become maybe the mentor, or maybe you're the lead contractor for that school district, and you kind of work hand in hand with the contractor in the school district to make sure everything's going well. Or maybe you become a hiring expert, or you're going to conferences to try and find new OTs to come work for that contract company. So I kind of thought that was kind of cool. I knew someone that did that, and I don't know that'd be interesting to be able to do that.
Amanda Clark
And I think we both know some people that were able to take their knowledge of having being working for a contractor rather and then building their own contract business, so kind of learning from the ground up what it's like. There's more than a few people out there that I know have been mentored by their former employers to build their own contract company. So that's another opportunity you could have, and that, and that doesn't necessarily mean you have to be an OTR too. That's available for CODAs. You can run business.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, and we didn't. We didn't really bring that up as a common way to work for a district. We We focus on kind of the main three that most people are going to be dealing with, especially as a newer OT, and that is district working for a contractor, or like the county or something, or the state even. But that would probably be the next way to work for a district, is contracting yourself to a district. Yeah, and that's a whole nother topic that I am not even going to try to dive into today for another day, another day someone who knows a lot more than I do. All right, so as much as we talked about some of those pros, I do want to talk a little bit about our perceived maybe cons or less beneficial, as comparison to working for a district, when you work for a contractor, and the first thing I think both you and I agreed a little bit on was, sometimes you can feel out of the loop.
Amanda Clark
Yes, yes. Um, I coming into the schools, I'm going to be honest, into the district rather, um, I did not expect it to be very different than my typical, you know, work that I was doing when I was going into the schools as a contractor. But it's very different. There's a lot of there's a lot of things you don't know about, as far as like policy changes and paperwork, and things that are more just in relation to the job itself, and not actually, like the the treatment, but as you know more on the admin side of things. So, um. Yeah, there is, you know, we've run into this this year Jayson, where our contractor did not know that there was a certain change that had happened, because she's not always invited to the meetings, not purposely, but just sometimes, you know, we just don't remember to invite them because they're not on the email list, right? So, and, yeah, it can be very challenging when you don't know that there's changes being made.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, absolutely, that's yeah, I like to be in the loop. So we had put some things about benefits and job security on here, but I think I'm gonna wait for a little bit later when we're gonna talk about that. But one thing we kind of listed it here I did as being a con, but as we just talked about, it's also a pro potentially, depending on your outlook, and that is that you could be working in a variety of different locations. Like Amanda said, she had the opportunity to work in not only a school as a contractor, but also in a clinic.
Amanda Clark
Days that I started in the schools in the morning, went to the clinic in the afternoon, and then I was working with the horses by the late afternoon. So, um, that if you're somebody who gets bored easily, that is a really good way to manage your day.
Jayson Davies
There you go. That's a good way to look at it.
Amanda Clark
Likes consistency then, then you might consider that to be a con.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, for me, I kind of like that consistency of being in the schools. I almost would get anxious, like, kind of being away from the school for to, like, especially, you know, just because I get so invested in that one, that one classroom, or those classrooms, and I was like, I need to be there. But I guess maybe for caseloads a little bit less. What's that?
Amanda Clark
And that's all you're where all your things are at. So if you're moving around throughout the day, you're also having to lug your stuff around. So that's that can be a challenge.
Jayson Davies
Yeah. And then another thing Amanda alluded to, I think, a little while ago, is that maybe you haven't yet, I don't know, but anyways, about the way that the benefits work, as far as and I'm just talking about pay at school year salary you get paid. It doesn't matter if you work eight hours or 10 hours a day, whatever you got to put your time in. You're getting a salary. But there's a much larger variance. When you're working for a contractor, you can work a few hours, or you can work, I mean, really as many hours as you as they let you work, but what? What have, what experience have you had, as far as, were you all full time? Or were Did you work part time at some points?
Amanda Clark
So, um, both as a full time employee. One job was salary, um, with benefits. Another job was not, um, and I actually made more at the job. That was not if you're a hustler and you work for a contractor and you're good at managing your time, you could make a lot of money, and that might mean you're working 12 or 15 hour days, because you're going to treat as many hours as you possibly can throughout that day. But it also is feast or famine. I went and the reason I came to the schools was this reason. And I went from 2017 to 2018 and I lost $9,000 and that was not because I didn't run a full caseload. It was because those those kids weren't showing up, or those students weren't at school, you can't charge for, you know, not treating so you know, your your money is also reliant on building that rapport with the with the students, with the parents, you know. So working summertimes too is rough. So if you have a very large caseload of school clients. I'm working for an outpatient, slash, you know, school based situation. I have some friends that really struggle in the summer, because they're not going to give you brand new kids. There's just not always people waiting. And then what are they going to do with those kids when you go back in the fall? Yeah, so obviously you can still there's things you can do about that they go on unemployment. It's very common during the summertime for people who are straight school based contracts that don't work for you know, or have other options for income. Or some of my friends actually go to those clinics and then ask if they can cover summer vacations for the girls who are working. So that's another way you can pick up some extra cash. So even though they're, you know, there's sort of pros and cons to both.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, and I think you also mentioned in here was about maternity coverage, and that is one thing that a lot of times, contractors will help out with. Is for when someone in the district, a district employee, goes on maternity leave, they might bring in a contractor for a few months, or however long is needed, a few weeks to cover that period of time. So that's another way that that you could be contracted or pick up some extra hours.
Amanda Clark
Right? And I have seen that on edge join both ways. I've seen that through contractor companies, and I've actually seen actually. Will school districts post for a short period of three months? And that's another way you can get your foot in the door.
Jayson Davies
There you go. All right, so that's some of the pros and cons about a contract job. Our list is a little bit shorter for both pros and cons on the district side, but let's talk a little bit about that. I mean, the first one really, is that you're working directly with the district. As far as being a pro, you are there, you're in the meetings. You're not missing meetings, like we talked about earlier, one contractor in our district, just like she wasn't getting the emails, and so she didn't know that she was supposed to be at meetings or whatever. But so that's one big pro. What other pro Have you seen in the district?
Amanda Clark
Um, I feel like there's a few things that I'm really enjoying. One is the, you know, being able to budget. That's been amazing. Um, having those benefits, like you said, that stability, knowing I have a paycheck coming, knowing that I have raises coming, when you work for a private company, they don't always have the ability to give you a raise, even if you deserve it, you know. So, um, you know, when you're working for the district there, it's guaranteed. And so, you know, you're going to always, things are always going to get better, even if the work gets hard, you're always gonna get paid. And so I really enjoyed that, but I also enjoy, um, you know, as a contractor, you're not, you're not often part of the team, like you mentioned earlier, and because of that, you may not get the same sort of supports when it comes to IEPs, um, you know, if I go and have an issue in an IEP and I go to my boss, she's gonna back me up, the team's gonna back me up. There might be lawyers involved to back me up. Um, you know that they are very good at our district of making sure that we feel supported in that way and that they agree or support, you know, whatever decisions we make. As a contractor, I didn't have that same experience. Well, I didn't have any, you know, Nightmare experiences like some other people have, I feel very lucky, but there were times where I couldn't have anybody to back me up, and sort of had to bow down in the end. Or, you know, you could lose that position if you don't do what they want you to do. So it's there's an ethical issue there as well, where I've seen people have to leave positions for ethical reasons, being a contractor.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, one of the things that I really like, too, is that I'm going to use minimum days as an example, because we work eight hours, we're contracted as a school district employee for eight hours a day, and versus a contractor on a minimum day where, you know, we're only at school, the kids are only at school for Four hours or so, four and a half hours, well, the contractor would be sent home after that four and a half hours or more than likely, they're headed to another school outside of the district, where it's not a minimum, minimum day, or maybe they're headed to the clinic or whatever to get more hours in. But for us, we have that time to collaborate with the teachers. We have that time to potentially put on trainings for the teachers. We have that time to use, as far as to somehow make the school better. Versus if we're a contractor, we may, basically, as soon as the bell rings, we're out of there.
Amanda Clark
And you're not getting paid for paperwork either. As a contractor, most of the time, I even when I was getting paid, I was getting maybe an hour, you know, you know, sometimes for the whole peak, you know, my one hour a week for paperwork, that's insane. And we all know we take way more than that to do all of our paperwork. So, yeah, that's, I guess that would be, another pro of the district, is that you're getting paid for paperwork time.
Jayson Davies
Yeah. I mean, you're getting paid the entire time that you're at the school. The school, and kids are there for on average, on a regular day, what, five and a half, six hours. And so you have about two hours that either a you're in a meeting or you're doing paperwork, treatment, planning, potentially getting organized. Honestly, because it takes so much time just to get freaking organized. But yeah, so you do have that, that ability to work beyond the time that you're just working with the kids. So that's nice. What else do we have here? We had benefits tend to be good. And again, we're in California. As far as the school districts here, it's a public job, right? And so it's a county job. They tend to be known for having pretty good health insurance. That's relatively it. Basically, it's typically paid by the school district. You might have to pay a little bit out of pocket, but for the most part, the school districts are pretty good here at covering most of the benefits. So that's helpful, versus a contractor that could be non existent.
Amanda Clark
Yeah, I didn't. That was the major reason for me moving out of the contract world and into the district world was the benefits. Was the pay, of course, but it was also having retirement. You know, it's not easy to find that anymore, and we're not. On a 401, k so, you know, we got pension coming like, that's that's big. That's rare nowadays. And I think that that is the real gem of working at the school districts, is.
Jayson Davies
Hopefully in 30 years, we'll still be able.
Amanda Clark
To say this zipper right now myself.
Jayson Davies
Oh, man, all right. But of course, there are always some cons. Every job has pros. Every job, every job has some cons. So one of the things that I wrote down was potentially having limited opportunities to move up, and that is because we don't have an educational credential, and in order to have jobs such as a Program Specialist, where you're kind of helping out teachers. And I mean, honestly, sometimes it can look similar to an OT because you're helping them with modifying the environment a little bit. But we can't have that job simply because I don't have, or we don't have credentials. We are licensed occupational therapists, but we don't have an educational credential. And so you are limited in that you can't potentially really change positions in a school district. So that's one thing that I that I kind of put as a con. What about you?
Amanda Clark
I feel like, um, you know, I agree with you on that one, um, you know. And kind of feeding into that a little bit is that autonomy I mentioned earlier that gets thrown out the window when you're working for a district, your job is sort of set in stone. You cannot make changes policy wise about most things. So in a way, you do feel a little bit like a follower. For some things. I will say, though that I think I'm it's beneficial for me, because I also have a tendency to just do too much when they put you in a box. Sometimes you have to stay in that box and that and that can be helpful if you're somebody who overworks yourself.
Jayson Davies
No wonder who that could be. Anyways, budgets, of course, budgets are always a pain in the butt right now, who knows what's going on with with the COVID 19 pandemic? There's talk all over the place about budget cuts, and we don't know how that's going to affect us. It could end up meaning that we get furloughed a few days. It doesn't sound like we basically have been told that that's not happening this upcoming year in our district. But who knows, maybe in the 2122 they say, Hey, take an extra five days of vacation and not get paid for it. I don't think that's not going to be the end of the world. I don't think anyone's going to quit because of five days when you have 195 day contract. But it's a little it's a bummer, right?
Amanda Clark
Yeah, and it's coming from being in a contract position where every Christmas that happened to me, when we would close for Christmas, and it's a forced vacation, you know, and, you know, even though there were, you know, oftentimes, you know, a little bit of a bonus or something, it's definitely not going to cover a loss of pay for five days. Or if you get sick and you're out of your sick leave that's, you know, mandated by the state, you know, then you're kind of stuck. So I'm used to getting those long unpaid break breaks anyway. So it's not, I guess it's not as scary for me.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, and I mean, again, it's, it's an unusual thing, typically in the schools, like Amanda said earlier, for us, we have, I think it's five steps where you know that you're basically going to move up to the next step until you're at the fifth step every year, as far as your pay increase. And then, even then, districts tend to occasionally do a cost of living, which typically increases a cost of living increase, which typically everyone is given. So for the most part, your pay is going to increase, at least for several years. That's, again, that's limited to our experience. Every state, every city, is different, and so who knows. But in the jobs that I've had, there tends to be five to seven steps, and then after that, you just get the cost of living, or maybe, like, a 10 year extra little bit for longevity, or something like that. But versus contractors, you basically got to negotiate anytime you can, right?
Amanda Clark
And that inconsistency in caseload can, like I said, make massive differences from year to year, if you had, you know, 30 evaluations in the first like six months, you know, and you're budgeting that way, and then all of a sudden, like nothing for the rest of the year, you know? It's hard to make that that adjustment. So I think that I definitely am happier the schools.
Jayson Davies
All right, I'm gonna press pause here real quick before we move on to the next spot, because I just want anyone out there who's listening to press pause real quick and shoot me a direct message or something on Facebook, Instagram and let me know. One Pro, one I can't even talk right now, one Pro and one con. Of your job, whether you're in a district or contractor, if you're. On Instagram or something to shoot me a quick message, let me know if you're in a contract or district position, and then shoot me a quick message. And with that, we are going to start talking about where you can find a job. And so this is really, of course, for people who may just be getting out of OT school, or maybe they're just diving into a school base that just thinking about having a school based gig, Ed join. Ed join, at least in California. I know they have some national posts. You said, right?
Amanda Clark
Yeah, actually, I had a moment where I thought I was just gonna throw it all up and run away to Hawaii. I was looking or Washington randomly. So, yeah, I was looking in actually, I was able to find jobs in other places, not just in California. And you can actually decide what area. There's a way to search a specific area, okay?
Jayson Davies
And for everyone that is, it's hard to, I think, spell out if you hear it, so it's Ed, as in education, and then join J O, i n.org, and that is where you can go. They have a lot of California spots. I don't think they have as many around the rest of the country now, but if you're in California, that is the go to place for education jobs. It doesn't matter if you're looking for ot PT, assistant principal or teacher, you're going to Ed join. But I did a little bit of research, and yes, there are some on like the the national, just the national job registration places like indeed, there's a few others out there. But the one thing that I would most likely suggest probably is going to the district website, the districts that are around you, because if they don't have the direct job openings on their website, they're going to tell you where they list their jobs. Typically, you go to their HR page or whatever on their website for the three districts that are near you, and you'll be able to find maybe they use edge join, or maybe they use LinkedIn, perhaps, or maybe they use indeed.com, but they should have a link on their website that tells you where they list their jobs if they don't list them right on their website. So good tip. Yeah. What else? Friends? Friends? Yeah, you gotta have friends.
Amanda Clark
And found out about this job opportunity was through a friend, through a colleague that I used to work with who became a friend, and you know, that's why it's so important, even when you're in school, to start networking and maintaining professional connections and relationships, because which he has a Small World Man, and you never know, like, who's going to be on that interview panel, you might walk in and be like, Oh, hey, we went. So, yeah, it's keeping in touch is really important, and asking friends
Jayson Davies
so true. And actually, the other thing you might know a little bit about this is the referral bonus for contractors.
Amanda Clark
I wish I would have got those. No, no, my experience, no, but I know that does exist.
Jayson Davies
Yeah. So the the contractor that I worked for, they had a referral bonus. Referral bonus. And actually the person that referred me got a bonus for me working for the company when I got when I got hired. And this particular company, they kind of had a, it was almost like a tiered level, and so the first few people that you refer you got like a $200 bonus or something like that. But by time you got to the fourth person, it was like 500 and then just kept going up. I mean, you could earn $1,000 bonus for referring your friend or for referring a new grad. And so that is something that that both of you can take advantage your friend and yourself. You get the job, and they get a little bit extra money. Maybe you can even ask them to split it with you, since they helped your you helped them get a bonus, I don't know, but yeah. So that's one way that you can do that, is talk to friends and just see what's out there. A lot of times, like Amanda said, it's a small world, we tend to know what jobs are going on around us or what jobs are opening around us. So yeah, alrighty. So those are where to find your jobs. Now we got to talk about what you need when you're going to apply for those jobs. We're going to talk about the documents, and I think I'm just going to really quickly list them out, and then we'll get in depth to a few of them. So of course, you need to have your resume, and that's the one that we're going to get in depth in just a second. But you also need a few other documents, and that might be or it'll definitely be, like your state license that shows you our licensed occupational therapist, your national registration as well. They typically want that a copy of that. If it is a school based job. They probably want your license, your actual driver's license, copy of that, and your driving record, because you're going to be driving from school to school, as well as proof of insurance. Some districts want a little bit more in terms of, like a letter of intent. We'll get into a little bit about that. Did I miss anything? Amanda, is there anything else?
Amanda Clark
I actually had to turn in undergraduate and graduate transcript. It's pretty shocking to me. I thought that I never needed that again. Thankfully, it wasn't a problem. But TB test, and then CPR. The CPR is going to be for most districts. You need the AED and basic first aid as well. It's not just you can't do an online class and qualify.
Jayson Davies
Oh, and then letters of recommendation, two to three letters of recommendation, that was another one that you're gonna have to get. And we'll get into that again. Like I said, those kind that's kind of what you need. But I want to break down the resume a little bit, and I want to ask, I want to get your take on this. For me, I believe that OTs don't need to put a lot of energy in making their resume super flashy. And my whole thinking on that is that there's not a lot of OTs out there that are typically applying for jobs, and therefore, it's not like they're flipping through them at 10 resumes a minute, trying to just look and see which one's flashy, right? What do you think?
Amanda Clark
Yeah, you know, I definitely making it look appeasing to the eye. So being too crowded, um, having, you know, if you're doing some sort of, you know, template, make sure that everything's lined up correctly. But yeah, sometimes less is more um. It definitely isn't a while we do have a, especially in school based, you know, that creative side as OTs and it's, it's also a professional job. So you don't want to be putting your resume out there like you're a makeup artist or somebody who's trying to get more like, you know, to stick with your resume. It might make it look like you're trying too hard.
Jayson Davies
Good point, yeah, I mean, I can just speak real quick. I was in a previous job where I had to hire an occupational therapist. I don't know if you've ever had to do the same thing, but our problem was not getting enough resumes or applicants versus getting too many that we were like, oh, sorry, no, your resume is not good enough. It was typically, we were like, please give us your resumes. Apply for our school. We need people. In fact, our HR department, they wouldn't even let us interview people. It was just a policy, I guess, until we had at least three applicants. And like, we struggled to get three applicants so that we could hold interviews. And so.
Amanda Clark
I waited from January to May and then had to reapply. I said that explains why I applied in January, and then in May it went back up. And I'm like, Oh, I guess.
Jayson Davies
It wasn't in the current district, but maybe I don't know. So yeah, no, it's just a Yeah. I just want to say, in my opinion, yes, you want to have good information on there. Yes, you want to have your grammar appropriate. But if you're trying to get your application in tonight, then get the information on there. And, like I said, work on your grammar. Don't try to make it you don't need to spend too much energy on making it look super flashy. You really just want to get your skills down on that paper. You can get, like a Teachers Pay Teachers template. I know that's what my wife did. She went on there and was able to find a decent template. Word has a few templates. I'm sure Google Docs probably has one. I don't know, but yeah, what type of things Amanda, did you list on your resume.
Amanda Clark
So on my resume, I listed, you know, obviously, work experience. I also put the relevant tools and assessments that I know, as far as like, what's relevant to school based you want to include your specialty certifications or any relevant training. That's very important. So even if you didn't get a certification in something, but you had, you know, a long weekend training course, that's important to add there, because it's definitely gonna make you stand out. And then also, I put my case management and so I put, like, what case management programs I had been familiar with, training programs, documentation, billing, management and supervisory roles, or even roles, yeah and yeah. And then, if you have a little space, you know, um, you can consider like that, that caseload you carry. So, um, because if you're a therapist who is like I said, you know, a real Hustler, and you're carrying a caseload of 50 to 60 clients that looks good to the school, because that shows that you know how to handle it, because it is hard. You have a lot of students to manage. And it's not just like, you know, 30 minutes or an hour a week. It's a lot more than that.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, exactly. And especially with schools and budgets, potentially budget cuts, caseloads are going to go up if budgets get cut, they're not going to potentially replace OTs that might retire or might leave the district. Maybe they're going to say, hey, we were doing okay with six OTs. Maybe we can do with five OTs. I don't know. Just. So yeah, you also, I think, added on here about supervision of OT a clients, oh, ot students or not, OTs students, sorry, OTs in general.
Amanda Clark
Yes, yes, because not everyone does that, you know, like where we're working at right now, we don't have OTs. So if you do have that, you know supervisory role, even if the district you're applying for doesn't have OTs, it shows that you can manage things, and it also shows that you know you can do more than just like your own caseload. And a lot of districts do have or not a lot, but some districts do have OTs, and so they might want to know that you know how to do that, but in our district, we're actually categorized as management, so they want to see that you can manage.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, but at the same time, and this kind of leads into a point I was going to make later, but I'll just make it now, is that you should research the district a little bit, because you might be able to find out if they even have OTs, because if they have OTs, then maybe it's super important that you put that on your resume. But if you know they don't have OTs, then maybe it's something that, if you don't have room for, you can add that and replace it with something else. So yeah, do some research on the district, if you can. All right, a few, just a few things about, oh, wait, if you were a new school based therapist or a new therapist right out of college, what would you put on your resume if you didn't have any work experience?
Amanda Clark
Well, I would definitely put where you did your volunteer service at and how many hours you did? I have been mentoring over the years. I mean, at least 40, maybe more, prospective ot students. And you know, I always allow them to put my information on there as they're applying for their first jobs. Because, you know, if they put in 40 hours or 80 hours just to get by. You know, that isn't as relevant as those students that worked with me for years, you know. So I let them put me down as reference also. But, you know, never underestimate that volunteer experience. Never underestimate customer service experience. And so that's one of the biggest things in working in working in schools is being able to keep your cool when things get an IEP. And by showing that you've been in an industry that requires you to do so, it makes you a very interesting applicant.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, for anyone who's been in a tough IEP, you know what customer service is and what it takes to get through a tough IEP I did a podcast a few episodes ago on getting through tough IEPs. So yeah, we're all in the business of customer service. No joke on that, letters of recommendations. Typically, districts want to see two, maybe three. My big thing on on letters of recommendation is make sure that the person you're asking to write you a letter really does like you. First of all, make sure that they're going to write you a good letter. The last thing you really need is like, just a rare letter from someone going to a district or a potential employer. You want that to be a good district. And of course, you may or may not know what they say in that letter based upon how the district wants the letter. Most of them now just want like a scanned copy, but I have seen employers want like a sealed envelope before.
Amanda Clark
So and contractors will do that as well. I've had some of my previous students apply for school based ot contract jobs, and they sent me something online that was sort of like a Google forms that you had to fill out. So this, that person never saw what my responses were. So it wasn't really, it's like they asked you for that letter of rec, but it really wasn't. It was just a link they sent you and then you filled out a form instead.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, all right. And then the other thing is that give the person time, whoever you're asking, for a letter of recommendation from give them a month to write it. And I'm going to say this is a little bit tricky, but I think it makes sense, is that if you need that letter A month and a half from now, tell the person that's at that you're having write you your letter of rec. Ask them if they can have it ready two weeks before you actually need it. That way they have a little bit of time for you to give them a reminder when they miss the due date. And I don't know what do you think about that?
Amanda Clark
Yeah. So for those people who are new to applying to districts, if you're applying to a contract job, you might need it sooner rather than later, because they have a tendency to need those people immediately. Everything has to go through several sets of meetings. So and they actually have to. Post for a certain amount of time before they can close that posting. So you should know a month ahead of time, as long as you're constantly looking you should know, okay, this closes on this date, and so therefore I have this much time. It's not always that easy when you're looking at a contract job. But yes, the time frame is huge. I have to tell you, like, as many letters as I've written, I know I've written at least 35 because I looked last night, um, and I have 35 saved on the computer I have now. So, um, yeah, so at least 35 and out of those 35 I will tell you that those, um, students that I did that for, and I don't do it for everyone. Mind you, so don't get upset when they tell me, No, um, but those who gave me the most amount of time, those are the ones that love their letters the most, and the letters that I felt most proud of, that I felt were the most beneficial to helping that person get get a job. Yeah, give them.
Jayson Davies
Yeah. And I would almost say, if you even have the slightest inkling that you might be applying for a job, you should probably start with getting the letters of recommendation. Because a lot of us, I know, we wait until like, the night before it's due to actually complete the application, because you're just like, you can't make up your mind if you want to apply for this new job, but you can at least get those letters of recommendation in your pockets beforehand. So that way, if you do decide to hit that send button to apply the night before, you already have them in hand, I understand that if you're in a position where you feel like you need your supervisor's letter of recommendation, but at the same time, you don't want to ask them, because you don't know if you're actually going to be leaving a job. It's a little tricky there, right? You probably should get your supervisors letter of rec, hopefully you they will say yes, and you'll get one, but that's the one where it gets a little bit tricky, because it's hard to tell your supervisor you're looking for another job, especially if you're not absolutely sure that you're leaving.
Amanda Clark
Right? And that's why I think it's also important to maintain those connections right, so you don't always have to go to that supervisor. That was not an option for me, and you know, not because I didn't think that she would write me one, but because I felt like I wasn't sure if I wanted to do it, like you said, I was just going to send it out, go to the interview, see what happened, and then if I got offered a job, I would think about it at that point. But it was just so much in the back of my mind, I felt like I needed to do something about it. So instead, what I did is I went out and I looked for colleagues, like you mentioned. And you want to go ahead and obviously have people that are in, you know roles above you, or maybe someone who's more experienced than you, to show you know that there are people out there you know that respect you. However, I will tell you, diversifying your letters of recommendation is important. I think that the including school based therapists, if you know them, obviously best, but my best letter of recommendation came from an OT A that I mentored and supervised. I literally straight up ugly, ugly cried when I read it like ugly cried so but when you're an employer and you're looking at that, especially if you're going into a district that does have OTs and they see like, Oh, wow. She's compassionate, and she's a good leader, and the people who work you know with her respect her, um, so, or him, sorry, I keep saying her, because I'm referring to myself, but um, so, I think that's important too. Is, you know, think about, think outside the box, about people who you know might be, um, able to write you a good letter that maybe aren't just people above you?
Jayson Davies
Yeah, I usually aim for an admin so it might be a principal or a special education coordinator, Director, or something like that. I usually aim for a colleague. That's an OT. And then I also try to get a teacher. I feel like having a teacher is a good one too, because those they work directly with you, and oftentimes the people that are going to be interviewing you were likely a teacher at one point. Yeah, there's probably an OT or two also on the interview panel, but it's very likely that the coordinator or director that's going to be interviewing you was a special education teacher first. And so that's why I try to get a teacher too, because it's kind of that connection.
Amanda Clark
And if you have options, I would also like to recommend, as far as like, if you're going into a location, whether that be a contractor or whether that be a school district and you know someone who works there, I would use that person as a person of reference, but not a letter of reference, because they will likely go to that person anyways. So you're it's better that you don't waste that letter, because that's actually like an extra recommendation.
Jayson Davies
There you go. I never thought about that good point. All right. So. So that leads us to the last thing that I kind of want to talk about just a little bit before we move on for the interview, but a letter of intent. And this isn't something that I think every district, or I don't know, do contractors ask for a letter of intent.
Amanda Clark
Not the ones that I've worked for? I'm not going to say they don't, though.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, but a letter of intent is, I mean, to be fair, honestly, I see it as almost a little bit of a formality. It's kind of you expressing your desire to work at this, this company, and also what you can kind of bring to this company or to this district, and why you'd be a good fit. That's all I really want to say. Too much about it. It's only a one pager. You want to add anything about that Amanda?
Amanda Clark
Yeah, so that one page, make good use of it. Try to find whatever your strengths are and tie them into what you know about that district. So for our district, Jayson, I looked online and I found information about a therapist that helped establish the sensory clinics within your district, and included that as inspiration in my letter by dropping his name. So flattery goes a long way, you know, to make sure it's genuine, because, again, you never know who's going to be on that interview panel, and maybe it's that guy or that girl.
Jayson Davies
Shoutout to Dennis. All right, you put on here. Actually, you added online personality test. I know that sometimes they'll do that.
Amanda Clark
I had to do that. I that I was expecting that more to come after the interview. Kind of thing. Actually had a district I applied for do that beforehand, and the questions were mostly in relation to conflict resolution.
Jayson Davies
Hmm, interesting. All right, I think we talked about CPR and a recent TB test. They usually want that. Some some want it up front. Others are like, we'll hire you, and then we'll have you go do the TB test or the CPR. But just check to see what whoever you're applying for, what they want. All right, man, we are giving out so much information. Let's go over. We're going to kind of shorten it down a little bit here, preparing for the interview. Let's go over the main things here. What did you do? We'll just talk about what we've done in the past to prepare for interviews.
Amanda Clark
Okay, so what I did when I was preparing for interviews is I went on Facebook groups, and I started asking questions from other therapists who work in schools, like what sort of questions were asked, or what sort of things you need to know. And so some of those things that came up were like understanding best practice in regards to delivery of service, whether it's collaborative consultation or direct and when it is or is not appropriate, and being prepared for what a typical session would look like. They want to know what you would do in a session. Now that's really hard because it's a general question, and we're not journalists, right? We are holistic with our approach. So with that answer, obviously you're gonna have to get a little creative and just make sure you're you upfront them with that you know that the thing for every student and and then another question that had come up was explain why you're decreasing services to a reluctant parent, like, how would you and so, hint, hint, the key phrase they wanted to hear was least restrictive environment. And yeah, there, I think that there's, you know, the standard things, like, you know, as far as you know, what is an IEP?
Jayson Davies
Yeah, know all the acronyms you put on here, there you go.
Amanda Clark
Yes, that's super important. And I did have that come up in an IEP, or no, I'm sorry, in the interview where I didn't know one of the acronyms for, I can't recall what it was, but it was a one specifically to that district or in that area, and I was completely lost so and, but don't, you know, rule out that they're going to give you those regular interview questions. So, you know, ethical dilemmas working as part of it, of a team, what are your strengths and weaknesses? Be prepared for that, because that caught me off guard. I was expecting all ot questions, and then I was like, oh, wasn't ready for that. So.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, I think the only real thing that I would add to that is to make sure you've done a little bit, little bit of research on the position and the school district, go online, look at the Special Education page. Do they have a lot of OTs that work at the district, or do they only have one OT, and you're replacing that one OT, because that might lead to for you to know what they're looking for. Are they looking for someone to build a program, or are they looking for someone just to come in and treat all day long? Are they looking for someone that's really going to be at one school, or are they looking for someone that's going to be at 10 schools? Just because you want to know a what you're getting yourself into, but also you want to know the key points that you want to know what strengths you have that you can share, and if you know what they're looking for, then you know what strengths that you have that you can point out a little bit more. So definitely look at what look for, what they're looking for.
Amanda Clark
And the population matters too, right? Right? So we're talking about the assessments. You know, they might ask you about what assessments you're going to use, and if you just throw, oh, I'm going to use the bot out there, and then they start talking about their severe program, you better have some ideas on how you would accomplish that as well, or what programs are used to using. So when they say programs, I got caught off guard. I didn't know what he was talking about. Um, you know, like Handwriting Without Tears, keyboarding without tears. Size matters, these things we know, but sometimes it's just the way that the question is worded that can throw you off. So.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, I have a question for you. Then, what's your take on when you are given the opportunity to ask questions at the end of the interview? Because sometimes that happens, they say, Hey, would you like to ask us any questions.
Amanda Clark
So yeah, when it comes to asking questions, I think what you had mentioned earlier about making sure you understand what's going on in the district in the way that they provide services. So you don't want to be wasting your critical one to two questions that you're going to ask. Do not ask a whole bunch of questions. It just annoys them. So make sure what you ask is good, and make sure what you asked it does not sound greedy. So I don't ask about salary in that first interview or benefit. It's, you know, we had, we had, going through this list, had a little bit of, like, differing opinions on far as you know, asking about caseload.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, I don't think I would specifically ask, like, can you share with me? Maybe I would ask it that way, can you share with me what your caseload or what the workload is? But I wouldn't just outright ask, yeah, I would love to know what the caseload is. I don't think I would ask something like that. Maybe, maybe ask, what does the caseload look like, or what does a typical caseload look like.
Amanda Clark
Right? So, you know, very risky question that I asked, but I needed to know this answer, and if you feel confident in how your interview went, or if you're not throwing all your eggs into that basket, it's always a good idea to ask, is it a caseload or workload model? Because that makes a huge difference in our day to day. Jayson, I know you know that, you know we may have the same number of students, but you might be working 10 times as hard depending on the severity of the program you're working in and I think that's important, because you need to know walking into that job whether or not you can handle it.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, that's it's tough and and you're under so much pressure. I mean, you're getting close to the end of your interview at that point. I mean, all the sweats just gone. I mean, but you're still a little bit you're kind of feeling great because you got through the interview, and then now they ask you that question. Do you have any question? And you should just be prepared for this some way, you have a few questions in mind, and hopefully they get answered during your interview, but if they don't, yeah, that's your time to ask that question. And a caseload workload question, it could be that. It could be about, will you be expected to supervise CODAs? Because if you don't feel really comfortable, then maybe the job isn't right and it's okay, especially, you know, if you're not putting all your eggs in one basket, like Amanda said, if you're interviewing at several different districts, I don't know. I don't know what the job market is in your area, but maybe you have a little bit of a leeway to choose which job you want. Same thing with the population. What type of population will I be serving if I get this job? Is it all is it like a full time Autism Spectrum Disorder caseload? Or do you have a mixed caseload? What does that look like? Those are questions that you're available to ask.
Amanda Clark
And also, as a new grad, you you can consider asking the mentorship question, very sticky situation. So as a new grad, they should short See, they should expect you to ask that, to be honest, but it implies that you need supervision, so which can make you look less attractive to a district if they want somebody who's just going to walk in and guns ablaze and take care of everything. So it kind of depends on your situation. How badly you need that mentorship. If you do need it, then you should ask about it. But if you think that you can get that mentorship elsewhere, you might want to keep that to yourself so that it makes you more attractive of an applicant.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, one thing you might be able to ask as a kind of way to around that one is maybe their thoughts on professional development, and if they help with professional development in some way, so at least you can get an idea that I think most districts would probably tell you is, if you ask them about professional development, they'd probably say, Yeah, we provide our therapist with a little bit of a stipend to go to professional development. Or maybe they won't say, they'll say, No, we don't do that. It's all you have to pay for all of your own professional development or something like that. I think they would be okay with saying something like that. Usually, yeah.
Amanda Clark
But, and Jayson, I feel like you have my favorite question, actually, the the first one that you put down on our list here, which one about the philosophy?
Jayson Davies
Oh, I totally scrolled down too far. Yeah, what is, what is the district's philosophy on occupational therapy and RTI? And I think that was my question that I asked for my current position. And just trying to understand, did they want me to just be there to service students one to one all the time, or did they want me to be able to help the teachers and help the entire school grow? And I mean, I wanted to know that. I don't necessarily remember what the answer was, but I think, I think that could be a good question, because it shows that you know more about ot just then working with the student one on one. It shows that you know a little bit about least restrictive environment just by asking that question. And it shows that you know that you can work outside of just a one to one model. So, yeah, all right, so let's move on. We are just about done here, and that is after the interview. The infamous after the interview, what happens? You're waiting for a call. You don't know if you're calling. You're asking your friends if they've heard from the district about your professional reference. There's not too much to talk about here, but I want to just do really quickly.
Amanda Clark
Jayson, you just said it though it's very important to be prepared for it to take a while. So don't hear back right away. Don't be disheartened. It takes true.
Jayson Davies
That is true. Don't take time. And it can be it can get tricky, too when you've interviewed for multiple districts, because maybe you really like one district, but they're the slowest district, and so now you are right, and so now you're holding out for that one district, and the other two districts are calling you like, hey, we want you what's what's your decision? And you're like, when do I need to know by? When do I need to tell you by? That's tricky, but it's okay to say you need a little bit of time. They might push you a little bit. And you know what? It may come to a point after you say that once or twice that they're like, hey, we need an answer. But you can let them know, be honest, especially after they've already told you that they want you. That's my opinion, at least.
Amanda Clark
Yeah, I agree. And they can't really move forward, as you know, if you're talking about, we're talking about specifically a district right now, not a contractor, but they can't really move forward until you accept or deny it, or until a certain time frame passes. So they I had actually spoken with some people at the district, and they were like, okay, basically, you have until this day to give us a yes or no answer. And thankfully, I heard back from our district before that. So, um, but yeah, you can, you can, you can drag it out a little bit, but I wouldn't drag it out too long, because you do have to eventually work with these people, and you want them to feel like you were their first choice, even if maybe they weren't. But you want them to feel that way.
Jayson Davies
So yeah, so I think the things that are in here, other than that question or you know that, that tricky, awkward moment of waiting for a call, we wanted to talk a little bit about negotiations, benefits and potential stipends for continuing education. We touched on negotiations a little bit. I think the gist of that was that you have some leeway to negotiate with contractors, with districts, you typically don't, because all the policies are set by the board, at least in most cases, that's how it is. There's five we talked about this earlier. There's five steps as far as pay scale, or seven steps. And you're going to be on one of those steps, you can't be on step four and a half, and you can't be on Step eight if there's only seven steps. So you're going to get paid on the steps, versus a contractor, they could offer you $45 an hour, and you could say, I was thinking closer to 50, and they could say 47 and you say 40 or 40. It goes back and forth potentially. This isn't a podcast about how to negotiate, but we're just talking about what to be prepared for, right?
Amanda Clark
And in the districts with the negotiation, it also depends, you know, if you feel like you have experience, that doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to be starting at step four. So if you have four or five years experience, you may not be coming in at step four or five. That usually is not the case. And there have been people I know that we're able to negotiate based on their previous income, yeah. But unless that's the case, most districts, I don't think would even give you a second you know question there. It's just no, the answer is no.
Jayson Davies
Yeah. And so what she's talking about is, I took a I was making more at a previous job, and I came to my current job, and I was able to negotiate for a higher rate than step one, not based upon my experience as a school based OT, but simply based upon my pay as a school based OT. In my previous District, which I'm not going to say I completely agree with, because I think it should be based on experience, not pay. But that may be how the district works. And so because I was making more, I started at a higher level than level one, because of making more at the other district, not necessarily because I had years of experience.
Amanda Clark
Right? And I was hoping walking in, that I was going to come in at my level of experience. So it was disappointing. So that's, I think, really important for everyone out there to know when they're going to apply that the likelihood is you will start at step one and be prepared to be offered only step one.
Jayson Davies
Yes, yeah. As far as benefits go, we talked to again. We talked about this earlier. In California, benefits tend to be better if you're with the district that's everything from insurance or insurance to your 403 B to your pension, retirement, all that good stuff. Versus with a contractor, there's so many factors that that that depends on, depends on how big the contractor is. I mean, you could be working for a contractor that only has three, three employees, and if that's the case, there's such a small business, they're not required to provide you with anything. I mean, obviously that depends on your location, but they're not required to provide you with health insurance, potentially, or a retirement plan, versus if you are with a like conglomerate, like a huge Pro, a huge contractor, then you're more likely to have some benefits. You might be able to negotiate a little bit. Benefits are hard to negotiate. No one really understands them.
Amanda Clark
But that comes down to whatever, just, you know that that contractor is able to access as well, even if they are able to access a program for you to be able to have some sort of insurance, it might not be good enough insurance. It's like you said, you have to have money to make money. So it does make it very challenging for them. And you know, you also the smaller the company you work for, you know there, you could use your negotiating powers to get extra per hour, which is what I did. So even though they did not offer benefits, I said, Okay, I'm going from not having benefit or from having benefits to not having benefits. And so this is the dollar amount I want you know, per per per client in order to make up that difference over the year.
Jayson Davies
Yeah, you know what I just realized we didn't talk about is being working for a contractor as your own contract, or working as a contractor as an employee, because those are also two different things, in the sense that if you're an employee of the contractor, typically, they'll at least have, like, sick time and stuff like that, and they have to pay your taxes, so typically they will pay less. But if you are acting as your own independent contractor, you're typically going to be able to ask for more. This is a complex question. I know some of you. This probably is going right over your head, and if it is, don't worry about it. Google it if you really want your episode, yeah, if you're an independent contractor, basically what that means is they're not taking out any taxes, they are not giving you any benefits. They are simply giving you $1 amount per hour, whatever you guys agree upon. But that means that you then have to go find your benefits, you have to pay your own taxes, and you have to figure out how to do that correctly or find someone that can. And so I would highly recommend, if you're a brand new OT, be an employee, whether you're a district employee or a contractor employee, be an employee if you don't know what it means to be an independent contractor, right?
Amanda Clark
And that's a question that you need to make sure you ask when you do go into those interviews with contractors and and, you know, another thing we forgot to mention Jayson is the panel, as a district, you're likely to be interviewed by a panel where, if you're on a contract, you know, job that you're applying for, It most likely will be one person.
Jayson Davies
So honestly, if, if there's one thing that you can take away from this podcast, it might be that districts have a very set they just have very set rules. They have very set policies that they have to follow by versus contractors, really, they don't have oversight as much as districts do, and so they can hire people on the whim. They can hire people with no interviews. They can hire people with three interviews. They can do things very differently than a district has to do. Of course, each district has some leeway to do things differently, but for the most part, policies are set by the district, and things aren't going to change much in the time that you're interviewed and the next person's interviewed, or the person before you was interviewed, usually, and so, yeah, it's just things take a little bit longer to change. Things might take a little bit longer to go through, like getting board approved so that you're actually an employee, like, say they like you at the district. Well, they have to get you. Board approved, which means that, basically they just have to say, we want to hire this person to the board. But that only happens. What meetings like that only happen once or twice a month, and so you have to wait for that. So it takes a little bit longer to get hired. All right, I think that's really all we have for today. That was actually a lot of information. I don't think we expected to be on here this long, but I hope it helps you all. Amanda, do you want to say anything else before we get out of here tonight?
Amanda Clark
Um, no, just that. You know, it's everyone's different. Everyone's needs are different. So it's not that one is better than the other. As far as contract versus district work, if you have a, you know, a partner that has benefits, it might benefit you more to work for a contractor where you have more flexibility, or, you know, more autonomy in your job. If you're somebody who needs stability, you know, the district is a good place for that. So there's no one size fits all. There's no one better than the other. Yeah, it's just what's best for you.
Jayson Davies
Yep, alrighty guys, well, thank you so much for listening, and Thank you Amanda for coming on as a special guest today. Really appreciate you coming on. Not bad at all, I told you. Like no editing even needed. All right, great. All right, I will see you later. Take care. All right. Bye. Bye. Guys. All right, everyone. Thank you so much for listening to Episode 50 of the OT school house podcast, a special. Thank you to Amanda Clark for last minute jumping on here and doing this episode with me. I think she had a lot of insightful points to make, so I really do appreciate her being a part of this. Yeah, that's it for today's episode, I hope to see you next time, and for some of the show notes, you can head on over to OT schoolhouse.com forward slash episode 50. All right, take care. Bye, bye.
Amazing Narrator
Thank you for listening to the OT school house podcast for more ways to help you and your students succeed right now, head on over to OT schoolhouse.com Until next time class is dismissed.
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