Search Results

Click on your preferred podcast player link to listen wherever you enjoy podcasts. Welcome to the show notes for Episode 148 of the OT Schoolhouse Podcast. How do children’s brains manage the interplay between self-regulation and executive functioning tasks? In this episode, join Lindy Joffe, OTD, OTR/L as she discusses the interconnectedness between sensory and executive function. She will offer insight into the clinical observations that can unlock a better understanding of student behaviors and learn actionable strategies to empower our children as co-learners in their educational journey. Tune in to understand the connection with executive functions and sensory regulation within school-based occupational therapy! Listen now to learn the following objectives: Learners will identify the relationship between child behavior, environment, and factors contributing to executive functioning Learners will understand how to empower the children as co learners and use interventions to reflect their unique needs Learners will identify practical assessment tools to use for executive functioning Guest Bio Lindy Joffe is a pediatric occupational therapist with 24 years of experience specializing in the integration of executive function and sensory regulation. She is fascinated by how the motor, sensory, perceptual, and reflex systems interact with executive functioning to propel resilience in problem-solving. Lindy received her OTD from Boston University in 2022 and MSOT from Columbia University in 1999. She is committed to translating complex concepts to people from different backgrounds and has taught CE courses locally and nationally. When not working, Lindy spends time with her partner, children, dog, and friends. She loves running, hiking, biking, and tai chi, and is learning to play the bassoon. Quotes “There's lots of different components that people talk about as the executive functions, but the three primary ones that everybody agrees are a part of it are working memory, inhibition…and shift, which is the ability to move from one thing to another.” -Lindy Joffe OTD, OTR/L “I come in as, essentially a mirror to them and as a co-regulator and as a co-learner. And so they are essentially in the driver's seat in terms of the problem solving challenges that I give them.” -Lindy Joffe OTD, OTR/L “Jack of all trades, master of none. And I think that kind of encompasses what our society does… As OTs, we are the master of putting all these things together and understanding what's happening in these kids' systems.” -Lindy Joffe OTD, OTR/L “We need to notice the errors to fix the errors to build executive function, they are the ones who really need to notice what's going on, and fix it, and reflect back on the challenges.” -Lindy Joffe OTD, OTR/L “The second primary construct is, the idea of them having productive struggles.” -Lindy Joffe OTD, OTR/L “Best analogy that I've ever heard for executive function…is that it is the air traffic controller of the brain.” -Lindy Joffe OTD, OTR/L “I think everyone needs to be working on executive functioning. They need to have an idea and an understanding of what it is so that we can all address it from our own angle. But I think as OTs, we can't be scared of it.” -Jayson Davies, MA, OTR/L Resources 👉BRIEF 👉BRIEF P 👉LINDY JOFFE Linkedin 👉Astronaut Training 👉QUEST 👉Multisensory Integration Article 👉Executive Function: Implications for Education Article Additional References Barbas, H., Zikopoulos, B., & Timbie, C. (2011). Sensory pathways and emotional context for action in primate prefrontal cortex. Biological psychiatry, 69(12), 1133–1139. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.biopsych.2010.08.008 Funahashi, S., & Andreau, J. M. (2013). Prefrontal cortex and neural mechanisms of executive function. Journal of Physiology-Paris, 107(6), 471-482. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jphysparis.2013.05.001 Gilbert, C., Li, W. Top-down influences on visual processing. Nat Rev Neurosci 14, 350–363 (2013). https://doi.org/10.1038/nrn3476 McCarthy, B., Datta, S., Sesa-Ashton, G., Wong, R., Henderson, L. A., Dawood, T., & Macefield, V. G. (2023). Top-down control of vestibular inputs by the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex. Experimental brain research, 241(11-12), 2845–2853. https://doi.org/10.1007/s00221-023-06722-6 Nakajima, M., Schmitt, L. I., & Halassa, M. M. (2019). Prefrontal Cortex Regulates Sensory Filtering through a Basal Ganglia-to-Thalamus Pathway. Neuron, 103(3), 445–458.e10. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.neuron.2019.05.026 Romo, R., & de Lafuente, V. (2013). Conversion of sensory signals into perceptual decisions. Progress in neurobiology, 103, 41–75. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.pneurobio.2012.03.007 Skirzewski M., Molotchnikoff S., Hernandez L.F.., Maya-Vetencourt J.F.. (2022). Multisensory integration: Is medial prefrontal cortex signaling relevant for the treatment of higher-order visual dysfunctions?  . Frontiers in Molecular Neuroscience, 14https://doi.org/10.3389/fnmol.2021.806376 Takeuchi, H., Taki, Y., Sassa, Y., Hashizume, H., Sekiguchi, A., Fukushima, A., & Kawashima, R. (2013). Brain structures associated with executive functions during everyday events in a non-clinical sample. Brain structure & function, 218(4), 1017–1032. https://doi.org/10.1007/s00429-012-0444-z Zelazo, P. D. (2015). Executive function: Reflection, iterative reprocessing, complexity, and the developing brain. Developmental Review, 38, 55-68. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.dr.2015.07.001 Episode Transcript Click on the file below to download the transcript to your device. Thanks for listening to the OT Schoolhouse Podcast. A podcast for school-based OT practitioners, by school-based OT practitioners! Be sure to subscribe to the OT Schoolhouse email list & get access to our free downloads of Gray-Space paper and the Occupational Profile for school-based OTs. Subscribe now! Thanks for visiting the podcast show notes! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts Click here to view more episodes of the OT Schoolhouse Podcast

Click on your preferred podcast player link to listen wherever you enjoy podcasts. Welcome to the show notes for Episode 136 of the OT Schoolhouse Podcast. Do you ever walk away from IEP meetings with a plan in mind, only to forget it later? In this episode, Jayson Davies, MA, OTR/L, discusses why the IEP is not your treatment plan and the crucial differences between the two. With actionable tips and insights from the OTPF-4, Jayson explains why creating a treatment plan is essential and how it provides support, protection, and clear direction for OTPs. Tune in now to learn more! Listen now to learn the following objectives: Learners will identify how the treatment plan is different than the IEP document Learners will understand what specific information is on a treatment plan Learners will identify ways to protect themselves legally Quotes “What the IEP doesn't include is that 'how' component, how we are actually going to help the student meet those goals.” — Jayson Davies, MA, OTR/L “The IEP is the who, what, when, where and why, then the treatment plan is the detailed how, to getting that student from where they are now to the goal that we want them to achieve a year from now”. — Jayson Davies, MA, OTR/L “Plans to discharge or graduate a student from occupational therapy services needs to start from day one from that very first evaluation or the very first time that you are having discussions with the IEP team about a student”. — Jayson Davies, MA, OTR/L “A treatment plan can be a form of protection for both you and your counterpart to ensure that there is communication between the both of you”. — Jayson Davies, MA, OTR/L Resources OTPF- 4 Taylor Swift Pencil Grasp Article OT Schoolhouse Collaborative Episode Transcript Click on the file below to download the transcript to your device. Thanks for listening to the OT Schoolhouse Podcast. A podcast for school-based OT practitioners, by school-based OT practitioners! Be sure to subscribe to the OT Schoolhouse email list & get access to our free downloads of Gray-Space paper and the Occupational Profile for school-based OTs. Subscribe now! Thanks for visiting the podcast show notes! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts Click here to view more episodes of the OT Schoolhouse Podcast

Hey there! As OT practitioners, we understand IEPs. I mean, we have to. You can't get through a school-based OT job interview without knowing at least the basics of an IEP. But 504s are different. I don’t think I knew what a 504 plan was until my second year in the schools, and it was probably an additional year or two before I was actually included on a 504 team. While IEPs follow a pretty standardized structure outlined by federal law, the landscape of 504 plans is notably varied. Across the country, districts seem to interpret what constitutes 504 plan interventions very differently, resulting in a wide range of approaches and practices. In this article, we’ll address the similarities and differences between these plans. I’ll also share insights and strategies from my experiences providing OT services under both an IEP and a 504 plan. Overview of 504 Plans and IEPs 504 plans and IEPs both serve as guiding documents that delineate the unique needs and accommodations for students with disabilities. And while both aim to ensure equitable access to education, they operate under distinct legal frameworks. A 504 plan, governed by Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, caters to students whose disabilities “substantially limits one or more major life activities” but do not necessitate specialized instruction. On the other hand, an IEP is mandated by the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA) and must be tailored for students with specific disabilities who require specialized educational services. OT Significance: OT practitioners can support students under both a 504 plan and an IEP. Eligibility Criteria Understanding the eligibility criteria for these plans is muddy, even on the best of days. For a student to qualify for a 504 plan, their disability must significantly impede major life activities such as learning, walking, or concentrating. This definition lacks the specificity outlined by IDEA, leaving the idea of who can benefit from a 504 plan ambiguous, at best. In contrast, eligibility for an IEP (not just OT services on an IEP) is well documented in IDEA and requires that a student must be identified as meeting one (or more) of 13 different disability criteria. In addition to meeting the disability criteria, the student must also be identified as needing specialized instruction to access and benefit from their educational curriculum. Eligibility for school-based OT services is not explicitly outlined by IDEA or Section 504. Scope of Services The scope of services offered under 504 plans and IEPs are often very different. Whereas IEPs usually include accommodations, modifications, specialized instructional supports, and related services, 504 plans will frequently only include accommodations for a student. While uncommon, it is not unheard of for districts to provide services (in addition to accommodations) to students on a 504 plan. As an OT practitioner, you may be asked to limit your 504 plan recommendations to accommodations and reserve services for students who qualify for an IEP. This is one of the many situations in which you might learn a lot about your personal ethical boundaries OT Assessment Process In the assessment realm, OT practitioners play a role in evaluating students' functional abilities and determining the most appropriate interventions. To understand the OT assessment process as it relates to IEPs and Section 504, you need to consider several factors, including: IDEA Section 504 provisions your State OT Practice Act The OT Practice Framework (OTPF-4) Regarding IDEA and 504 Plans, the statutes have similar requirements for what an evaluation must look like. Information must “draw from a variety of sources” and “all significant factors related to the student's learning process must be considered.” Likewise, sources may include “aptitude and achievement tests, teacher recommendations, physical condition, social and cultural background, and adaptive behavior” (“Protecting Students with Disabilities,” 2023) I obviously cannot discuss every state practice act, but by looking at the OTPF-4 we’ll get a good sense of what is required of an OT evaluation. The OTPF-4 notes that prior to providing OT services, OT practitioners need to have a solid evaluation to guide the intervention process. It also outlines the three primary aspects of an OT evaluation. Those are: The development of an occupational profile An analysis of occupational performance, and A synthesis of the evaluation data So, to answer the question of how 504 plan OT assessments differ from IEP OT assessments, my answer is that they don’t - or at least the process should be the same. Sure, the outcomes of a 504 plan assessment may be different from those of an IEP assessment, but that doesn’t mean that you need less data to come to your conclusions. There will likely be some occasions when you are asked to evaluate a very specific area of need for a 504 plan. In that case, your evaluation may be more targeted than others, but the process and how you arrive at your recommendations will remain the same. You can learn more about what school-based OT evaluations should look like here. Want to learn more about OT Evaluations? Sign up for the A-Z School-Based OT Course to help you better understand how to complete an OT evaluation. You'll get access to my evaluation document template to improve your evaluation write-ups! Intervention Process Traditionally, interventions for students with a 504 plan revolve around providing accommodations such as preferential seating, extended time on tests, assistive technology to facilitate equal access to educational opportunities, etc. In addition to the accommodation(s) put in place, consultations with team members may be required to ensure they are implemented with fidelity. In contrast, an IEP frequently includes weekly, monthly, and/or less frequent consultative services in addition to accommodations. However, as I noted above, 504 plans can include consultative or direct services. Likewise, OT practitioners can suggest accommodations to an IEP team without implementing any service—although I recommend at least a consultative service when first implementing accommodations. I hope you are starting to see how entangled and gray 504 plans and IEPs genuinely are. It is because of this that I see more and more districts bypassing 504 plans and going straight to an IEP. Documentation I’ll keep this section short and sweet. When it comes to documentation, the answer is to ALWAYS DOCUMENT!!! Whether the student has an IEP, 504, is on MTSS, or any other program with an acronym that only educators know, document everything - Evals, notes, progress, sessions… everything! Conclusion As I hope you have gleaned from this article, IEPs and 504 plans intersect in complex ways. 504 plans are not “accommodation only” plans. And IEPs do not always have to include OT services. When it comes to the OT assessment and intervention pieces, I have come to acknowledge that there are more similarities than there are differences. What really seems to separate them out are the pieces that OT practitioners have less say in - such as how the student qualifies for one or the other and details in the paperwork. No matter what kind of plan you are supporting, I know OT practitioners are always going to be on the side of supporting the student. And so long as you do that, you’ll just about always do the right thing. What are your experiences like with 504 plans and how do they compare to IEPs? Please share this article on LinkedIn and share your thoughts. I would love to hear what you think. Thanks for having a read, 👋 Jayson Resources Occupational Therapy Practice Framework: Domain and Process—Fourth Edition. Am J Occup Ther August 2020, Vol. 74(Supplement_2), 7412410010p1–7412410010p87. doi: https://doi.org/10.5014/ajot.2020.74S2001 Protecting Students With Disabilities. (2023). Ed.gov. http://www.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/504faq.html Sec. 300.8 Child with a disability - Individuals with Disabilities Education Act. (2018, May 25). Individuals with Disabilities Education Act. https://sites.ed.gov/idea/regs/b/a/300.8

Click on your preferred podcast player link to listen wherever you enjoy podcasts. Welcome to the show notes for Episode 144 of the OT Schoolhouse Podcast. Dive into the OT Schoolhouse Podcast's latest episode, where Jayson welcomes Amy Crosby, whose innovative application of the Kawa Model in education is cultivating an oasis of calm for educators amidst the tempest of school day chaos. Join us as Amy reveals how a simple yet profound shift in supporting teachers can ripple into improved classroom dynamics and personal well-being, backed by her engaging workshop results. Don't miss out on this insightful journey through the lens of the Kawa Model to cultivate professional and personal fulfillment for you and the teachers you serve. Tune in, and let's navigate the turbulent waters of education together! Listen now to learn the following objectives: Identify and describe the core concepts of using the Kawa model to support teachers as introduced by Amy Crosby in school-based occupational therapy. Recognize the environmental and personal stress factors in educational settings that were highlighted during the workshop. Recall the strategies for stress reduction taught in the workshop, including deep breathing and thought reframing. Guest Bio Amy Crosby received her Master's degree in 2003 and her Post-Professional OTD in 2023 from the Medical University of South Carolina. She has spent most of that time working with children in a variety of settings, such as school systems, acute care, private preschools/day cares, and homes. One of her favorite things professionally to do is "share the good news" by educating caregivers, teachers, and school administrators about topics within the OT scope in order to help them serve the children. Her company, Crosby Coastal Therapy LLC, has offered staff trainings and consultative services to schools and day cares for over a decade on a multitude of topics related to children. Amy has a heart for teachers and used her doctoral capstone project to pour into their social-emotional health so that they may continue pouring into their students. Resources 👉 View Amy's Capstone Project 👉 Get in touch with Amy 👉 The Kawa Model Website Highlights from the episode "As occupational therapists, it's not just about the students; we need to serve and support our teachers as well." - Amy Crosby, OTD, OTR/L "Educators are under so much pressure. It's not just about the curriculum; it's about creating an environment where both they and the children can thrive." - Amy Crosby, OTD, OTR/L "Implementing the Kawa model within a school setting was a novel idea, but it has shown that we can have a real impact on educators' lives." - Amy Crosby, OTD, OTR/L "Understanding the environmental factors that cause stress at work can empower us to create more positive and productive learning spaces." - Amy Crosby, OTD, OTR/L "Seeing a 10% reduction in stress levels among participants affirms that the intervention we are applying has a tangible positive impact. - Amy Crosby, OTD, OTR/L "The classroom is a microcosm of the larger world, and if we can improve flow and engagement there, we can make ripples that extend far beyond its walls." - Amy Crosby, OTD, OTR/L When we teach strategies like rainbow breathing, we're not only helping teachers with stress management but also enhancing the classroom atmosphere for the children." - Jayson Davies, MA, OTR/L "We're not just occupational therapists, we are educators and advocates, and sometimes that means adapting our role to meet the needs of those we serve." - Jayson Davies, MA, OTR/L Episode Transcript Click on the file below to download the transcript to your device. Thanks for listening to the OT Schoolhouse Podcast. A podcast for school-based OT practitioners, by school-based OT practitioners! Be sure to subscribe to the OT Schoolhouse email list & get access to our free downloads of Gray-Space paper and the Occupational Profile for school-based OTs. Subscribe now! Thanks for visiting the podcast show notes! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts Click here to view more episodes of the OT Schoolhouse Podcast

Click on your preferred podcast player link to listen wherever you enjoy podcasts. Welcome to the show notes for Episode 146 of the OT Schoolhouse Podcast. Imagine a school environment where every student, regardless of their abilities, can actively participate in physical education. How can we, as occupational therapists and educators, work together to turn this into reality? In today's episode, we are joined by Faith Newton, an occupational therapist based in England, who is passionate about inclusive physical education (PE) for students with special educational needs and disabilities. In this episode, Faith will discuss the school-based occupational therapy system in the UK and how it compares to models in the US. She will also explore universal design principles and strategies for making PE more inclusive for all students. Tune in to learn more! Listen now to learn the following objectives: Learners will Identify the key components of an inclusive PE program for children with special educational needs and disabilities (SEND). Learners will understand the role of occupational therapy in supporting neurodivergent students in physical education settings. Learners will understand how to conduct an activity analysis for common PE games like dodgeball to identify sensory, physical, cognitive, and emotional demands. Guest Bio Faith Newton is a Children's Occupational Therapist and founder of School OT. She has worked with schools, parents and children since 2013. She is also the author of 'Inclusive PE for SEND Children' and has two neurodivergent children. She is passionate about making schools more inclusive. Quotes “People talk about the positive emotions that come with sport and that's definitely the case. But there's also can be a lot of negative emotions” -Faith Newton, Occupational Therapy MSc (pre-reg) "My approach, really with universal strategies is things for the whole class and it's not changing the person, it's changing the environment and the occupation." -Faith Newton, Occupational Therapy MSc (pre-reg) "My approach is what's good for kids with SEND is good for all kids." -Faith Newton, Occupational Therapy MSc (pre-reg) "How can you make it better for everybody? The kids with no diagnosis, the kid that’s struggling, and the kids that do really well, it can just maximize their chances, if they have choice and enjoyment." -Faith Newton, Occupational Therapy MSc (pre-reg) “For so many of our kids, there's so much else going on. It's not automatic, it's really challenging. So awareness is really key.” -Faith Newton, Occupational Therapy MSc (pre-reg) “Inclusion is a Journey…none of us are perfect…making it manageable, the just right level of challenge for them.” -Faith Newton, Occupational Therapy MSc (pre-reg) “I think the schools don't ask, and we don't ask them. So it's kind of like nobody's thinking about it.” -Faith Newton, Occupational Therapy MSc (pre-reg) “If we're going to help these students be included into general education, physical education, then we should probably also be supporting the people that are gonna make that possible, like the teachers and the aids.” -Jayson Davies, MA, OTR/L “We're all part of a team together and we all need to support one another.” -Jayson Davies, MA, OTR/L Resources X @FaithSchoolOT Faith's Website Susan Bazyk Initiatives Mim Project Amazon- Inclusive PE for SEND Children: A Practical Guide for Teachers Faith Media Episode Transcript Click on the file below to download the transcript to your device. Thanks for listening to the OT Schoolhouse Podcast. A podcast for school-based OT practitioners, by school-based OT practitioners! Be sure to subscribe to the OT Schoolhouse email list & get access to our free downloads of Gray-Space paper and the Occupational Profile for school-based OTs. Subscribe now! Thanks for visiting the podcast show notes! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts Click here to view more episodes of the OT Schoolhouse Podcast

Click on your preferred podcast player link to listen wherever you enjoy podcasts. Welcome to the show notes for Episode 147 of the OT Schoolhouse Podcast. Do you think AI can revolutionize school-based OT? In this episode, join expert guest Teresa Fair-Field as she explores innovative uses of artificial intelligence that are reshaping the way OTP's support students and clinical decision making. Discover the collaborative efforts between clinicians and tech experts in developing predictive AI, and learn how these advancements can generate treatment plans and improve communication. This episode is great for any school-based OT who wants to stay up to date, and utilize technology to enhance evidence-based practice and ultimately enrich student outcomes. Listen now to learn the following objectives: Learners will recognize the ethical considerations of AI use. Learners will understand the role of occupational therapy in supporting neurodivergent students in physical education settings. Learners will identify strategies for integrating AI into clinical decision-making, IEP development, and treatment planning. Guest Bio Teresa Fair-Field, OTD, OTR/L Clinical Assistant Professor of Occupational Therapy Baylor University Teresa Fair-Field, OTD, OTR/L, Clinical Assistant Professor of Occupational Therapy at Baylor University since 2021, affiliated with Early Markers, a Seattle-based startup focusing on machine learning and infant motor development. Their NIH-funded work aims to create an app for AI-supported early screening, parent coaching, and education. Teresa specializes in neurological development across the lifespan, including early intervention, infant motor skills, and neuromotor conditions. Quotes "AI is a family of computer systems... aimed at solving problems that could include learning, problem solving, decision making, pattern recognition." – Teresa Fair-Field, OTD, OTR/L “All of the ethical responsibility is on the user to sort of normalize. I use this tool in the same way that you would have used Microsoft Word embedded grammar checks.” –Teresa Fair-Field, OTD, OTR/L “You kind of have to assume if you are entering details, that they are going on a computer somewhere that you don't have control over. So that's why it's really important that you're sort of cutting and pasting things and that those things don't have explicit information in them.” –Teresa Fair-Field, OTD, OTR/L “That's the biggest hurdle. It's not the integration. It's connecting the existing systems we already have.” –Teresa Fair-Field, OTD, OTR/L “Evidence based practice is reading the research, learning about the research, taking what you know about the patient, what you know about the environment, the school…and deciding for yourself whether or not that research actually makes sense for your case.” – Jayson Davies, MA, OTR/L Resources 👉 Chat GPT 👉Hippocratic AI 👉Early Markers 👉Consensus AI 👉Magic School AI 👉Copilot AI 👉Gemini AI 👉Occupational therapy in the Fourth Industrial Revolution 👉https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7l5Fjl8dilI&t=1 Event replay Link 👉Get in touch with Teresa Episode Transcript Click on the file below to download the transcript to your device. Thanks for listening to the OT Schoolhouse Podcast. A podcast for school-based OT practitioners, by school-based OT practitioners! Be sure to subscribe to the OT Schoolhouse email list & get access to our free downloads of Gray-Space paper and the Occupational Profile for school-based OTs. Subscribe now! Thanks for visiting the podcast show notes! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts Click here to view more episodes of the OT Schoolhouse Podcast

Click on your preferred podcast player link to listen wherever you enjoy podcasts. Welcome to the show notes for Episode 138 of the OT Schoolhouse Podcast. As a school-based Practitioner, have you ever thought about exploring alternatives to traditional pull-out sessions? If you're looking to expand your scope of practice, increase work efficiency, and provide more individualized services in the least restrictive environment, tune into this episode. Jayson dives into the benefits of working with students in their natural context, the different service models available, and how to implement them effectively. He discusses many areas from individual and group sessions, to collaboration and consultation with teachers and aides. Listen to learn more! Listen now to learn the following objectives: Learners will identify ways to support students in the general education and least restrictive environment Learners will identify ways to build rapport with teachers Learners will understand the importance of natural context Learners will understand how to transition to different service models Host Bio In 2017, Jayson founded the OT Schoolhouse website and now supports school-based OT practitioners via courses, conferences, and the OTS Collaborative community. With experience as both a contracted therapist and an "in-house" employee for two distinctly different districts, Jayson has had the opportunity to appreciate the differences between both small-rural and large-suburban districts. Recently, Jayson has put forth his efforts toward supporting therapists interested in tiered intervention, collaborative programming, and managing their workloads. Quotes "Although it's difficult to collaborate, it makes it even more difficult to collaborate when we are constantly using pull out services." — Jayson Davies, MA, OTR/L “Teachers appreciated, when occupational therapy practitioners modeled sensory and behavioral support strategies for the teachers and aides." — Jayson Davies, MA, OTR/L “It gives you some flexibility, to work on those skills, that you may need to do in a group or a pull out setting and then it gives you the other two sessions to generalize them into the classroom.” — Jayson Davies, MA, OTR/L “If we are sharing our knowledge with a student, and the teacher and or the aide, then they can work together when we are not in the room, and that is what leads to consistency.” — Jayson Davies, MA, OTR/L Resources Therapists’ perceptions of the 3:1 Service Delivery Model Article Caseload and Workload: Current Trends Article Toward Participation-Focused School-Based OT Article A Sensory Integration Intervention in the Schools Article Sisti, Mary K. MA and Robledo, Jodi A. Ph.D. (2021) "Interdisciplinary Collaboration Practices between Education Specialists and Related Service Providers," The Journal of Special Education Apprenticeship: Vol. 10: No. 1, Article 5. Available at: https://scholarworks.lib.csusb.edu/josea/vol10/iss1/5 Episode Transcript Click on the file below to download the transcript to your device. Thanks for listening to the OT Schoolhouse Podcast. A podcast for school-based OT practitioners, by school-based OT practitioners! Be sure to subscribe to the OT Schoolhouse email list & get access to our free downloads of Gray-Space paper and the Occupational Profile for school-based OTs. Subscribe now! Thanks for visiting the podcast show notes! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts Click here to view more episodes of the OT Schoolhouse Podcast

Click on your preferred podcast player link to listen wherever you enjoy podcasts. Welcome to the show notes for Episode 137 of the OT Schoolhouse Podcast. Are you aware of the hidden traumas that adolescents face daily, that can sometimes go unnoticed? In this episode Dr. Park sheds light on the subtle negative experiences that may go unnoticed but have a long-term impact on these young lives. The discussion also takes us beyond traditional understandings of trauma to recognize the broader spectrum that encompasses a sense of not belonging and exclusion due to identity-based micro aggressions. Join us as we uncover the impact of trauma on adolescents, discuss the importance of inclusive education, and foster a greater understanding of how OTPs can support those dealing with trauma in meaningful ways. Listen now to learn the following objectives: Learners will gain an understanding of the different types of trauma experienced by adolescents and how these experiences impact their daily lives. Learners will explore practical strategies to create trauma-informed classrooms and inclusive environments that promote healing, growth, and resilience. Learners will develop a toolkit of evidence-based interventions and approaches that can be used to address the effects of trauma in school-based settings. Guest Bio Dr. Karen Park has extensive experience in pediatric practice in a variety of service settings including early intervention, clinic, school, hospital and outpatient children’s mental health. She is Board Certified in Pediatrics by the American Occupational Therapy Association and holds Advanced Practice certification in swallowing assessment, evaluation and intervention in California. Prior to joining the faculty at the University of St. Augustine for Health Sciences, Dr. Park was an assistant professor of clinical occupational therapy and the director of academic fieldwork education at the University of Southern California (USC), Chan Division of Occupational Science and Therapy. Her expertise in fieldwork education focuses on role-emerging fieldwork experiences in children’s mental health settings; specifically mentoring occupational therapy (OT) students in identifying and establishing the role of OT in addressing the occupational needs of underserved children and families with a history of complex trauma. Dr. Park has lectured nationally and internationally on topics around interdisciplinary approaches to feeding assessment and intervention, the intersection of trauma and mental health factors on mealtime engagement and enjoyment, healthy weight for children with special healthcare needs, as well as developing and sustaining role-emerging experiences. Quotes “Psychological safety really paves the way for belonging." — Karen Park, OTD, OTR/L “Every experience positive and negative is going to change the trajectory of that brain development slightly.” — Karen Park, OTD, OTR/L “We want cortisol, to help us respond to stress, that's a good thing. But when we have children that are experiencing…ongoing, traumatic experiences, what happens with the HPA axis, is that the cortisol is being consistently released over and over. And that can create a sense of hyper vigilance for our kids.” — Karen Park, OTD, OTR/L “We want to have some awareness of the issues in the world that may be impacting our students and the pain and the grief that they may be carrying, so that we don't ask them to leave their humanity at the door.” — Karen Park, OTD, OTR/L “It just makes it a little bit more real sometimes to better understand how the brain is processing, the trauma and how the limbic system is working, and how the HPA is all working.” — Jayson Davies, MA, OTR/L Resources University of St. Augustine for Health Sciences Website Karen Park Linked-in Karen Park Instagram AAPIOT -Instagram Association of Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders in OT Unconditional Learning Polyvagal Institute PACEs Every Moment Counts -Susan Bazyk OT Schoolhouse Episode- Susan Bazyk Jeffrey Arnett -Emerging Adulthood Articles ACES- Kaiser Permanente The Body keeps the Score Book Deb Dana Website Ann Wilcox Article Johnson et al. Article - Microaggressions Solomon and O’Brien’s Pediatric Skills for Occupational Therapy Assistants 5th Edition (6th Edition with Dr. Parks written chapter will be releasing in 2024- Adolescent Development: Being an Adolescent, Becoming an Adult) Episode Transcript Click on the file below to download the transcript to your device. Thanks for listening to the OT Schoolhouse Podcast. A podcast for school-based OT practitioners, by school-based OT practitioners! Be sure to subscribe to the OT Schoolhouse email list & get access to our free downloads of Gray-Space paper and the Occupational Profile for school-based OTs. Subscribe now! Thanks for visiting the podcast show notes! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts Click here to view more episodes of the OT Schoolhouse Podcast

Click on your preferred podcast player link to listen wherever you enjoy podcasts. Welcome to the show notes for Episode 139 of the OT Schoolhouse Podcast. Ever wondered about the transformative power of child-led methods in creating inclusive and empowered learning environments for students with special needs? Dr. Amy Coopersmith is here to share with us how students receiving special education experience occupation deprivation and the important role of child-led decision-making and planning in occupational therapy. Through her own personal examples and strategies she shows how these approaches can help foster independence and self-advocacy ultimately unleashing these students' potential. Tune in to hear more about many strategies such as the use of choice boards, self-monitoring, and the "Captain Me" program. Listen now to learn the following objectives: Learners will understand the significance of establishing a least restrictive environment for children with disabilities to enhance their autonomy and learning opportunities. Learners will identify the importance of educators and occupational therapists actively listening to children, aiding them in formulating personal goals, and distinguishing between internally-driven and externally-imposed objectives to foster independence and empowerment. Learners will explore practical strategies for engaging children in decision-making, planning, and goal-setting within occupational therapy sessions, aiming to cultivate self-determination and independence. Guest(s) Bio Dr. Amy Coopersmith, OTD, OTR/L; MA Ed, is a self-determination advocate with over 30 years of experience as a pediatric occupational therapist and teacher. As a school-based therapist in New York City, she worked as a clinician, evaluator and supervisor serving over 100 schools. Amy noticed that the child-led teaching methods she used during her years as an educator made a big difference in children’s lives. She implemented those ideas as an occupational therapist and found that children made faster progress and demonstrated greater motivation and engagement using these methods. Author of the Self-Determination Strategies Toolkit and the Captain Me program for young children, Amy strives to teach practitioners and educators how to implement evidence-informed strategies to promote children’s autonomy. Amy earned her doctorate from Temple University in 2022, and she continues to present at national conferences, mentor practitioners, and develop new materials to translate research into effective practice Quotes “IEP goals are important, but what's most important is that they understand goals that are important for themselves." -Amy Coopersmith, OTD, OTR/L, MA, Ed “We need to be aware of ways we can help boost their confidence and help them achieve some level of competence at things they're good at, so that they have a positive experience with learning.” -Amy Coopersmith, OTD, OTR/L, MA, Ed “When they create today's plan. It's their plan, they own it. And so I think that's a very powerful message to the child.” -Amy Coopersmith, OTD, OTR/L, MA, Ed "Boredom allows students to become more advanced in their imagination, and their imaginative play.” -Jayson Davies, MA, OTR/L Resources COSA Captain Me Self-Determination Strategies Toolkit Canadian Occupational Performance Measure (COPM) Captain Me Music on Spotify Episode Transcript Click on the file below to download the transcript to your device. Thanks for listening to the OT Schoolhouse Podcast. A podcast for school-based OT practitioners, by school-based OT practitioners! Be sure to subscribe to the OT Schoolhouse email list & get access to our free downloads of Gray-Space paper and the Occupational Profile for school-based OTs. Subscribe now! Thanks for visiting the podcast show notes! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts Click here to view more episodes of the OT Schoolhouse Podcast

Click on your preferred podcast player link to listen wherever you enjoy podcasts. Welcome to the show notes for Episode 140 of the OT Schoolhouse Podcast. In this episode, Lori Flynn is delving into multiple different aspects of understanding ADHD, creating personalized teaching plans, developing visual schedules, and fostering a supportive environment for every child. She also discusses the challenges and the practical strategies that can assist. You'll be equipped with some tools to create a positive and inclusive learning environment. Join us as we explore these valuable insights and work towards making a real difference in the lives of these students! Listen now to learn the following objectives: Learners will understand the environmental Impact on ADHD Symptoms Learners will identify the pivotal role of individualized interventions in addressing the unique needs of students with ADHD. Learners will identify the overlap between sensory processing difficulties and ADHD, and distinguish between sensory interventions and breaks for children with ADHD. Learners will identify the need for collaborative support and individualized teaching plans for children with ADHD, and understand the importance of integrating visual aids, recognizing strengths, and providing clear accommodations for optimal support. Guest Bio Lori Flynn is a practicing school-based occupational therapist, certified ADHD practitioner, and parent coach. She is the founder of OT4ADHD.com, a website dedicated to providing school-based professionals with effective, evidenced-based strategies that facilitate improved classroom participation and performance for children with ADHD. Her knowledge and passion surrounding ADHD is shaped by extensive ongoing continuing education and lived experience. Quotes “Teachers do well when they can.” -Lori Flynn, OTR/L “The children who do not have the hyperactivity piece… they're not being identified.” -Lori Flynn, OTR/L “I am not focusing on automating writing when they're older, because the speed in which the class is moving is so much faster than any type of game that I can ever build for that child.” -Lori Flynn, OTR/L “No, he doesn't need to try harder. He needs to try differently, because that's not going to work for him.” -Lori Flynn, OTR/L “For any accommodation that I am going to put on to that page, I'm going to make sure that there's a plan to actually incorporate that accommodation.” -Jayson Davies, MA, OTR/L Resources BRIEF checklist WISC-V Conners 4th Edition Chadd Visit Lori's website for QR codes to support the most common classroom issues. OT4ADHD website Episode Transcript Thanks for listening to the OT Schoolhouse Podcast. A podcast for school-based OT practitioners, by school-based OT practitioners! Be sure to subscribe to the OT Schoolhouse email list & get access to our free downloads of Gray-Space paper and the Occupational Profile for school-based OTs. Subscribe now! Thanks for visiting the podcast show notes! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts Click here to view more episodes of the OT Schoolhouse Podcast

Click on your preferred podcast player link to listen wherever you enjoy podcasts. Welcome to the show notes for Episode 145 of the OT Schoolhouse Podcast. Have you thought that optimizing your practice with efficient goal banking strategies might be helpful? In this episode, we explore a range of goal banking options, from simple PDFs to advanced spreadsheets, to help you streamline your process. Join us as Jayson shares his journey and a practical six-step plan to create and utilize your personalized goals. Jayson also introduces the concept of templating goals and even offers a glimpse into the AI-powered solutions for creating reusable, searchable goals. Don't miss out on this insightful episode to help you in your daily school-based practice! Listen now to learn the following objectives: Learners will identify the purpose and benefits of creating and using a goal bank for school-based OT Learners will understand the process of templatizing goals and customizing criteria and accommodations Learners will be able to apply strategies for organizing and categorizing goals to create their own goal templates. Guest Bio In 2017, Jayson founded the OT Schoolhouse website and now supports school-based OT practitioners via courses, conferences, and the OTS Collaborative community. With experience as both a contracted therapist and an "in-house" employee for two distinctly different districts, Jayson has had the opportunity to appreciate the differences between both small-rural and large-suburban districts. For over five years, he has been helping therapists implement proactive tiered interventions, support IEP teams with goals and services, and feel more satisfied with the job they are doing as school-based OT practitioners. Quotes "I want to help you either, overcome that stopping point of yourself creating a gold bank that you can actually use and/ or help you find a gold bank that you can use." -Jayson Davies, MA, OTR/L "I also wanted the goals to be ready to plug and play. AKA, I wanted them to be a template, easy to copy those goals really quickly." -Jayson Davies, MA, OTR/L "if you're looking for a reason to become familiar with using artificial intelligence, AI, this may be the perfect opportunity." -Jayson Davies, MA, OTR/L “Using that filter button can definitely make your life much easier, once it actually comes time to use this goal bank. -Jayson Davies, MA, OTR/L “After building and beginning to use your goal bank, you may find that some goals lend themselves to other factors that you commonly use.” -Jayson Davies, MA, OTR/L Resources 👉 OTS Collab- Goal Bank 👉 ChatGPT- AI 👉 TeachersPayTeachers Episode Transcript Click on the file below to download the transcript to your device. Thanks for listening to the OT Schoolhouse Podcast. A podcast for school-based OT practitioners, by school-based OT practitioners! Be sure to subscribe to the OT Schoolhouse email list & get access to our free downloads of Gray-Space paper and the Occupational Profile for school-based OTs. Subscribe now! Thanks for visiting the podcast show notes! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts Click here to view more episodes of the OT Schoolhouse Podcast

Click on your preferred podcast player link to listen wherever you enjoy podcasts . Welcome to the show notes for Episode 141 of the OT Schoolhouse Podcast. How can the strategic use of color and contrast in writing programs not only capture children's attention but also foster a focused environment for handwriting tasks? In this episode of the OT Schoolhouse Podcast, guest Helene Lieberman discusses her journey of developing a program, seeking feedback from colleagues, and making adjustments based on their input. The program features high-contrast laminated pages to reduce distractions, helping children with low vision and attention deficit disorder focus on writing tasks. Join us as we explore the intersection of program development, collaborative feedback, and the pursuit of effective interventions! Listen now to learn the following objectives: Learners will understand the process and challenges involved in developing a program for school-based occupational therapy. Learners will identify the potential impact of creating evidence-based programs and interventions in school-based occupational therapy, including the benefits of pairing with academics to conduct formal research projects to evaluate the efficacy of interventions. Learners will identify the challenges and strategies for managing and collecting program data for multiple students in a school-based setting, and learn about the importance of keeping careful records and monitoring progress during therapy sessions. Guest Bio Helene Lieberman MS, OTR/L received her Bachelor’s Degree in Occupational Therapy from Boston University, Sargent College of Allied Health and a Master’s Degree in Family Support Studies at Nova Southeastern University. She is NDT Trained in Pediatrics, trained to implement Interactive Metronome and IM Home systems, ILS and SIPT Certified. For the past 34 years she has worked in a variety of settings including hospitals, schools, outpatient clinics, Intermediate Care Facilities and home health. Helene is the creator of BlackBack Writing to teach shapes, letters and numbers and is developing writing paper to teach the proper alignment of letters. Quotes “Take pictures and keep a file and see if you notice a difference… and keeping it in a secure place.” -Helene Lieberman, OTR/L “Let's say if you have a problem and you solve it with a good idea, other people probably had similar problems and are looking for something to solve that problem.” -Helene Lieberman, OTR/L “Research in 2022…learners who struggle with handwriting also tend to struggle with keyboarding.” -Jayson Davies, MA., OTR/L “Research shows that when writing is done, there is an increase in literacy as well, whether it's letter recognition, whether it is, their reading, also memory is increased.” -Helene Lieberman, OTR/L Resources Right write stylus App - Writing wizard App - Letter School Learning without tears Free sample of BlackBack Writing Episode Transcript Expand to view the full episode transcript. Jayson Davies     Hello and welcome to episode 141 of the OT schoolhouse podcast, your go to resource for practical strategies and professional development in school based occupational therapy. I'm your host Jayson Davies. And in today's episode, we had the pleasure of speaking with Helene Lieberman, and experienced occupational therapist and creator of the black back handwriting program. In this episode with Helene will explore topics like using high contrast writing programs to address handwriting difficulties, practical ways to integrate sensory activities and specialized writing programs into school environments, and even the challenges and triumphs of developing and implementing an innovative handwriting program within your own school based occupational therapy program. If you're a school based occupational therapy practitioner looking for evidence based strategies to empower your students with diverse learning needs, then this episode is for you. Enhance your knowledge of effective reading interventions and sensory activities and gain valuable insights from Helene's extensive experience. Now, enjoy the intro music and tune in to gain valuable tips and inspiration for enhancing your OT practice in the school setting.    Amazing Narrator     Hello, and welcome to the OT schoolhouse podcast, your source for school based occupational therapy tips, interviews and professional development. Now to get the conversation started. Here's your host Jayson Davies. PLAs is officially in session.    Jayson Davies     Helene, welcome to the OT, schoolhouse podcast. So glad to have you. How are you doing today?    Helene Lieberman     I'm doing well. Thank you. How are you?    Jayson Davies     I am wonderful. Thank you for asking. And I'm excited to talk to you, you know, the holidays are coming up. But when this airs, the holidays, we will be in the past. But I would love for you to share to get us started a little bit about your background and experience as a school based occupational therapy practitioner.    Helene Lieberman     Okay, so I graduated many, many years ago in 1988. And I've worked in a variety of settings, school bass being one of them. And I really enjoy the school based setting because you do see a variety of children. And you get to interact with the teachers where they really need to have their work that we're doing an OT applied. So, but before that I worked in outpatient, I worked in a rehabilitation unit for pediatrics. I did homecare early intervention. So a little bit of everything. Awesome.    Jayson Davies     I have a question based on your experience with being in an outpatient clinic was that pediatric? Yes. All pediatrics. Okay, gotcha. Was there anything in particular that you felt was helpful as you moved into the school based OT realm from that clinic based realm?    Helene Lieberman     I guess. Pediatrics has pediatrics. And maybe the goals change to turn the goals to a more school based educationally related goal. But a lot of it carries over I didn't really feel that there was much to learn except maybe how to do an IEP. That was a bit of a learning curve and dealing with some of the parents, the IEP, but an outpatient, you're dealing with parents all the time and other family members. So I think that was good preparation. But I really think it was an easy transition.    Jayson Davies     Yeah, I for me, I never worked in a clinic setting, but I did a lot of fieldwork hours at a pediatric clinic. That's how I got into OT. And the biggest takeaways are differences. I guess, for me, that I noticed was the session length, a lot of times in a clinic, you have a full hour with a student versus in school based OT right? We're often that 30 minutes, sometimes even less. And then also with clinic basis, the frequency two, sometimes kids will be in a clinic, three, four times a week, oftentimes at least twice. Versus in school based OT we're kind of lucky if we get that 130 minute session. And so that was the big takeaway for me.    Helene Lieberman     Yeah, that is a bit of a difference. But I was lucky enough to work in a school where we were in house, there were four occupational therapists within the school. So even though they might have been on the schedule, once or twice a week, we were able to see them more frequently and just go into the classroom. So it was a really nice setting to work in.     Jayson Davies     Great. Well, we're gonna dive into the content for today. And just a little teaser, you have developed an entire hand writing program. But before we get into that, I want to kind of get into the why and even a little bit about the how that came to be. And so to kind of get started with that section of the episode, I guess, what made you decide you know what, I need to develop a hand writing program what was wrong? What did you see that just kind of drew you to it?     Helene Lieberman     Well, I would say I Other kids and I worked in a preschool for our children on the spectrum. So I would say 95% of the IEPs had a writing goal, whether it was just drawing a line or first letter of their name or something I'm related to writing. And there are quite a few of the children on my caseload, who really just didn't want to have anything to do with writing, it became very difficult to motivate them, even if we weren't using writing tools and trying to use some of the other, you know, components that had to do with writing. Maybe that would be good. But as soon as you brought out a writing tool that related to the goal, and we had to take data on it, it became very stressful. So parents wanted the goal still on their IEP. So I'm like, Okay, we got to figure out a way to make this happen. And I guess there are certain programs we're using, and I'm not saying any of them back, because I really think there's value in every single program, it just really depends on the person you're using the program for. And not every program works for everyone. And that's why occupational therapists really need to have a huge bag of tools in order to accommodate whoever comes onto your caseload. So that being said, I was having trouble meeting goals on the IEPs. And I was like, I need to do something else, because I need to get this done. And I gotta figure out how to do it. And we're creative, as OTs so started coming up with other things.    Jayson Davies     Absolutely. And I it's been a little while since this episode, aired that I'm about to talk about what we had an episode with Susan Cahill. And she talked a little bit about creating your own evidence. And one of the important pieces of creating your own evidence is actually using a set program. You know, if we're just kind of coming up on the fly with a with a session, every single week, you're not necessarily creating evidence, because there isn't really a standardized tool that you're using, or even an unstandardized tool that you're using. And so it sounds like you decided, You know what, I need to create something. So it's all kind of put together into a nice, clean, little bundle. I'm sure it wasn't that at first. But that's kind of what it came to be right.    Helene Lieberman     Yeah, I was doing things session by session and child by child initially. But once I saw that something was working, I actually did the same thing with certain children. And I kept doing what I was doing with other children. And then I started seeing a more positive outcome with some of the new things I was doing. So then I realized I was onto something.    Jayson Davies     Gotcha. Okay, I want to ask you a follow up question to this. But to kind of give some context for everyone just briefly describe the premise of the back black writing or get right back black or black back.      Black, it's a black background, basically. So that'll help them remember it. So what I noticed is that the basically, I started noticing, and it was a Halloween project that we were doing. And I used a black piece of construction paper. And I was using white papers and white Q tips in order to make a skeleton figure and some of the children really gravitated towards that children who were very interested in doing a lot of arts and crafts, the fine motor kind of things. So I just thought that was interesting. And then I took a piece of white paper, and I put it vertically on the black construction paper. And the kids started coloring on the white paper. And I was like, oh, that's, that's interesting. And then I turn the paper and there was a horizontal line. And then I started cutting strips and making different shapes. And I noticed that the kids weren't very interested in that. So the preschool was a preschool for children on the autism spectrum. There were some children who also had Attention Deficit Disorder, I also had a few children who had low vision in addition to a diagnosis of ASD, obviously, the children with low vision definitely took towards it. So that was the first concept of just making the black background and the white image and then I started thinking of how are they going to learn to write small because I had that piece of paper from the top of that construction paper to the bottom. So they started making it smaller and smaller so they can learn more about the coordination after the formation of doing whatever it is they were doing. So I just started with the shapes first and then I started cutting a lot of paper and making letters and then go this is and copying it and then eating up the toner on the on the don't tell them that was me. Who did that and making copies and so I said you know what this seems to be working and then I finally this is after a few years now we're told Parking, I had a graphic artist work with me to make it into a program that was then sent to a printer and laminated. So the program itself is letters, upper and lowercase is one, program numbers zero through nine. And all the prewriting shapes that we do. And each program has six sizes except for the letters which just change, but we'll talk about that later. So starting from a larger size, going down to the size of why ruled paper, there is only one image on the page. So there is no numbered pages, there are no pictures identifying if you have a see, there is no car, there's nothing else for the child to do. When they work on the whitespace. They see what they're doing. When they start working in the black space, there's no feedback, so becomes very errorless, where they want to go back and work in the white space to see what they're doing. And there's no other distraction on the page for them to talk about everything. But what is needed to be done.    Jayson Davies     Yeah, great. And so, again, high contrast, you really brought down the focus level, right? You're drawing their focus into exactly what you want them to be doing nothing else to distract them. Of course, we can't control everything around them in the room. But on the paper, we're focusing them into that one letter one number one shape that we want to focus on. Exactly. All right. And so you said that all came from a Halloween Halloween concept idea. Now, before you develop this idea of putting white paper or white color on a black background, I want to ask whether other ideas that you tried that maybe you found weren't as successful?     Helene Lieberman     I would say I mean, other programs that we use are just generally writing on paper using a lot of sensory media to do writing using different types of writing tools, crayons, markers, dry erase boards, chalkboard, Clay, wicky, sticks, everything else that you know, I could think of that would interest the child?     Jayson Davies     Yeah. And I mean, those are types of things that we use every day. But I guess why did you? I'm sure you still use some of that. But ultimately,    Helene Lieberman     I use it all. Exactly, right? Yes, I love all of it.    Jayson Davies     So why focus on the program, as opposed to some of those other tools, or I mean, you said you still use them. But what made you decide like those weren't enough.    Helene Lieberman     It was really the distraction factor. That's what it really was. And I still will use block back along with other programs, again, depending on the child, and there are so many wonderful writing programs out there. But a lot of times to get somebody's attention, and interest in focus. This is how I felt I needed to start because a lot of children were overwhelmed. Whether it was by all the images on a page, or the page looked very busy and confusing, or the page was part of a notebook like a bound notebook. And the child thought that they would have to do the whole notebook, even though you would say just one page, it just became the anxiety started to increase before we even got to do the activity. Yeah. So it became that became a barrier as well. So the this program is laminated pages, but it's there are three holes for our whole time. So you can put them in a binder. But I usually take it out because if you start presenting the binder, I had the same type of reaction where it became a heightened anxiety. So that's where I started. Just just keep it simple. Very simple.    Jayson Davies     What about technology? I know one of my go twos was using an iPad. I liked using a stylus with apps like writing wizard or letter school. What about did you use those and kind of?    Helene Lieberman     I did and sometimes it's successful sometimes it's not depends on the child. I always lock the iPad when I do apps. And I love the the right, right. Stylus Yeah. only works with the proper grip pretty much. And even though I'd lock the iPad, some kids did well with it. Some kids kept trying to press the button to change the app. Yeah. And that became a focus of theirs and they were not happy that they couldn't change what was on the iPad.    Jayson Davies     Right. Follow up question to that one of the biggest difficulties I had with the app and I wanted to know if you had it, too, was carryover from an app onto papers. That's something that you noticed as a difficult thing to overcome.     Helene Lieberman     Not so much. I always go to paper. Even with the black writing I go to write Killer paper also right after, when I use apps, I was good at paper after because that's more most of the kids are gonna end up writing. And of course, there are some kids who end up using typing and, you know, apps for communication. But I always go to paper.    Jayson Davies     Gotcha. Cool. And kind of on the line to that technology side, I'm sure at some point in your career, you have had this debate in your head, just as most of us have, why not go to typing for our students who are struggling, even if it's, you know, early on, why not go to that next use technology,    Helene Lieberman     because research shows that when writing is done, there is increase in literacy as well, whether it's letter recognition, whether it is their reading, also, memories increased when children are writing. So that's important. And I think the aspect of writing is really something that started drawing pictures. And then leads, of course, to the literacy and being able to express yourself. And it's not just the writing, it's the legibility of it. There's research that shows that students who write messy, get poor grades, even if maybe they wrote the correct thing, sometimes teachers don't want to bother with it, sadly. So they end up getting downgraded on their papers. And then they become more upset and unfocused and their self confidence decreases. So I think it's important thing to write, not every class is going to have the technology. And not every school district is going to go to technology right away are provided. And some families don't have the means for that as well.     Jayson Davies     Yeah, you know, you sent in some, you sent him some slides that we were able to prepare for, for this interview today. And one thing that really struck me with this, you had you actually cited this as a research from, I believe it's more mo HR in 2022, that learners who struggle with handwriting also tend to struggle with keyboarding. And this really struck a chord with me because I have never had nice penmanship. And so I have always tried to focus a little bit on typing. And even at the age of 35, I think I am now my typing speed is probably still slower than a today's seventh grader, like I am terrible at both. And so like I fit right into that study, which I just thought was kind of interesting.    Helene Lieberman     Yeah, I thought that was very interesting, too, because you would think, if it's the legibility and the writing, they could type. But again, when you think of the sub skills for typing, you still need to visually scan the keyboard, you still need to be able to have dexterity in your fingers. So there are things that you need for writing that you will need for typing.    Jayson Davies     Yeah, and even if you're trying to be more fluent with typing if we want to say same thing with writing, like for me, I've always struggled to Farpoint copy effectively with a pencil, because I don't I personally feel like my tactile awareness is not greater, maybe it's a little bit of probe, but like I have to look down at what I'm writing with a pencil like otherwise, I'm just going to be all over the page. And that same skill is also used very much in typing right to touch type, you rely on a lot of tactile feedback, a lot of muscle memory per se of knowing where all the keys are and so I think like you said, there's a lot of overlaps when we really think about it between handwriting and typing. So     Helene Lieberman     Yeah, I have to look at the keyboard when I type I cannot I think that's the only class I failed in high school was typing.    Jayson Davies     I mean, I'm going to completely admit that I still log into typing club every now and then to practice my own typing skills. i Yeah, that's how bad that is. All right. But but still kind of like for real on typing the keyboard because I know that it is something that people can move on to and I definitely have and I want to get your take on this for me and I honestly don't remember where I read this I want to say it was in like maybe the etch manual or something like this but it was something like we should it move kids over to typing until they have reached at least 15 words per minute and and maybe all of us have our own separate kind of criteria for students when to move to tyffyn But what did you kind of use if you were you know, transitioning to typing what did you kind of use to gauge whether or not that would be okay for a student?    Helene Lieberman     I because I live in Florida third grade is a big year and I don't know you know if your state so Third graders a big year, where they have to often write more sentences and essays. And if their writing is so difficult that they're not going to write much, because it's a struggle. And they don't have somebody to write their thoughts because, you know, they don't have that, that accommodation, usually by third grade.    Jayson Davies     Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if it's by third grade that like, we need to make that decision here, at least, but not make the decision. I understand what    Helene Lieberman     cutter drive I'm like, let's start the typing and see what what happens is going to stick better. Is it going to be more successful?    Jayson Davies     Yeah, and this is the perfect transition to the next kind of topic I wanted to talk about which was common core, because, as you know, like there is no real handwriting in common core goals. Like it says that they will print but it doesn't say like, to what degree and the same factor I think unless I'm wrong, you can tell me the same thing with typing. Like it says the kids will type but it doesn't really gauge like, what that exactly looks like.    Helene Lieberman     Exactly. There's no standard on the typing or the writing, I think it says, For the writing it says from a model. So they might be looking at what the teacher does. And what I call is drawing a letter. So the letter in the end might look like the teachers letter, but the formation is maybe not proper. And that eventually starts slowing down the child and their writing, if they're not using a efficient way to form the letter. And in the Common Core, there's a lot of not handwriting requirements, but writing requirements in terms of writing essays, or writing creative thoughts or writing a paragraph or so the writing is there, but the handwriting pieces not.     Jayson Davies     Yeah, and and I kind of understand why because I think that they tried to left it more broad as a way to understand within society that we are moving to a digital age. And if they put in there, that the child will hand write a paragraph or hand write an essay, then people will come about and say, Well, what about typing? So I think that being a little more broad opens that up. But go ahead,    Helene Lieberman     but I don't think the states put anything in I know our state doesn't put anything in there. Either. The Common Core can be interpreted differently by the states and we know different schools. Counties also do their own thing. And some counties do put in handwriting as part of their core curriculum, and some do not. Actually, some teachers just do it on their own because they understand the importance of it whether their district has it or not.    Jayson Davies     Yeah. And that reminds me that I believe California, just think it was California just signed into law that they're bringing back cursive, like cursive was gone for how many years? And it's still, like you said, I don't think her sister mentioned in the broad, Common Core, but as you mentioned, right states can potentially put some into it. And I think California has made that decision. They're going to put cursive back in. So yeah.    Helene Lieberman     Yeah. So it depends on you know, and there are some states, of course, you don't even have a core curriculum, but that's a whole other. Right. That's all thing. But and the private schools, of course, are different than public schools, private schools can do their own thing. Actually, more private schools, from what I've seen, and when I've heard I don't have any research or data on this. But I have heard and seen that private schools, have handwriting curriculums versus or have more handwriting curriculums that a public school does. And I don't know if that's because they have the funding, or the parents are demanding it or I'm not exactly sure what it is.    Jayson Davies     Who knows, but yeah, yeah. While we're on the common core subject, how do you feel we talked a little bit about Common Core how lacks the handwriting lacks hyping? But aside from that, what have you heard from teachers, from principals from other occupational therapy practitioners, as far as how common core is impacting their day to day with students?    Helene Lieberman     What I've heard is that a lot of teachers are teaching to the test. That is what I've heard. And then for occupational therapists, that the teachers want the therapist to do the homework or whatever the assignment is, that they need to do in the therapy session so that they can keep up with the curriculum, even if it's a push an activity, like, Okay, this is what we're doing. Now. That makes sense, of course, you know, we're pushing it and this is what we're doing. But even if they're pulling out, like, can you do this, they can't miss whatever it is that they're doing, and I think I understand the need for test taking, but I think that's sometimes takes over the learning process.    Jayson Davies     Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I definitely have had teachers kind of say, Hey, can you work on this homework in your pullout setting or whatever, like, and we started To have actually, principals, and I know this isn't uncommon, we were being directed to not pull out kids during a certain time, because that was core instruction time. And that gets really hard because now your time to see kids has been shrunk even more with an over impacted, you know, caseload and it's struggling.    Helene Lieberman     I have that problem actually, right after this. I'm going to see a kid in the schools, it happens to be a private school. But because their day is so busy, I cannot see the child till the end of the day. Yeah. So they're pulled out for the last half hour. When I'm not allowed. Nobody's allowed in the classroom either. Oh, wow. All right. So I get the child like the last half hour or the day, and then the child stays a little bit extra. And then the family comes to pick the child up. But it became like, well, there's just no room in our day for OT. Yeah. And if it wasn't for the parent pushing, I don't think they would allow it at all. The parent is a very good advocate for that child.    Jayson Davies     Yeah. Yeah. It's there's a lot of restrictions being put on everyone. And it's not just OT, right. Like, it's everyone's speech, teachers, principals. It's everyone, right? It's just making everyone's job a little bit more, more difficult. Right?    Helene Lieberman     There's only so many hours in a day.     Jayson Davies     Exactly, exactly. And then you try to put 60 Kids in, you know, to a matter of a 32 hour work week, it just gets impossible. I kind of want to circle back because we did go off tangent A little bit. But those were important conversations. And now bring us back because I want to ask you, how did common core understanding Common Core or not understanding Common Core at the time? How did that impact the route that you took with black back with the writing program?    Helene Lieberman     I'll be honest, I had no clue about common core, before I started looking into it. So I was looking as to what the schools are requiring for handwriting. And that's when I started talking to some of my teacher friends. And they were the ones who were telling me that there is nothing required. And then I started looking into it. And I found this similarities. So yeah, so I was very clueless, except for my own children. I knew there was a curriculum and a common core. But other than that, as an OT, I really never delved into it, and I should, and I feel we should be in the school system, you know, be more aware of it. So I admit, I was totally unaware until I started looking at well, what are schools to for writing, you know, how do they, you know, get the kids to write.    Jayson Davies     So as you were looking into your school, like, what, what were your teachers doing? What were other therapists, like? What were they doing? if they    Helene Lieberman      Okay, so in other school that I was working in, actually we use, I'm learning without tears, which I do love. I love it. And I incorporated a lot. There's a lot of wonderful things in terms of sensory and movement. And it's a wonderful curriculum. The only issue I had is that some of the children were very distracted by some of it. Again, great curriculum evidence, not for everybody. So I found pairing this, but yeah, there was a curriculum. And actually, the OTs went into the classroom, usually once a week to do a center that every teacher had the materials and incorporated some of the songs into their circle time. So it was it was very successful.     Jayson Davies     Gotcha. Okay. So they were using the students that were being referred to you then at the time, they were already getting some sort of handwriting instruction. Yes. Okay. Yes. Because a lot of times as occupational therapy practitioners, right, we get the handwriting referral, and then we ask what's been done? And the answer is just like, regular instruction, there's no further program in there. So that's nice to know. That    Helene Lieberman     yeah, it was wonderful.     Jayson Davies     Awesome. Okay. So that's kind of where your school was at, at the time when you thought of blackpack writing. Now, as it started to progress, as you started to see students, you know, it was working for students. At what point did you start to kind of look into more research to kind of maybe adapt it based on research a little bit.  Um, so it was looking at some of the research of like, just colors and writing and just in general colors. I found a lot of stuff on media marketing, low vision, you know, things that didn't have to do with writing. I did find one study that was done in Germany. I believe it was in Germany, with children who had attention deficit disorder, and they were given color choices of paper. And they found that the children wrote more, but they their theory was that it was the child's choice like Oh, I love pink, I'm going to write on pink versus white. So they were talking about giving the children color choices as paper. Now we know that there's like the overlays the colored overlays that are helpful. But there was nothing that talked about changing. Now I've worked with children who have low vision, where they and I can't remember the name of the machine for the life of me. But it's a machine that if you put the book under, and you could flip the background. Oh, so I think I know what you're talking about. I don't know the name of it. But I had a student who I believe had that.    Helene Lieberman     Right. So if they're reading a book, you put the book under, and then the light is on top, and then they're knobs and adjustments, so you could flip the color. Oh, do they really?     Jayson Davies     Well, I mean, I was working with a high schooler, you can imagine a high schooler having that on his desk and a general education. Yeah, yeah, we just have iPads.    Helene Lieberman     Right. So the the low vision, you know, piece was, you know, important too. And that's where a lot of the research was, but nothing that had to do with writing and changing the color. And I saw somebody doing research, please.    Jayson Davies     Yeah. And you know, it's interesting, because that is something that we see we see the overlays a lot in occupational therapy. And I want to say there is some research around it for reading, but I don't know about writing exactly for reading. And then in the writing space, I think every occupational therapy practitioner just about is familiar with a high rate paper that has that yellow, highlighted area, I created a paper that's called gray space, paper and other one with color, and it was just using gray. So I mean, that is not uncommon, within the OT world, especially to use colors on paper as a visual cue. So, but there isn't a lot of research from what you're able to find. It sounds like I couldn't find any research in terms of writing.  Interesting. All right. If anyone out there wants to take my gray space paper and do some research, I would be happy to print out as much as you want. I'm just throwing that out there. I'm sure Holly would be happy to if you use a black bag.     Helene Lieberman     Yeah, definitely now that there are more entry level doctoral programs out there. Most students do need some sort of capstone project. So if any of them are listening, or if somebody knows somebody who needs a capstone project, I guess you can get in touch with either of us. And I'm happy to have them doing. I'm doing some research now. And so far, not much. So last school year, we didn't have a very large sample size, we had one classroom, and we did four kids for six weeks of the school year, and then another four children for the second six weeks. So there really wasn't a lot of evidence or significance, I guess, is the word. Limited learning I'm learning. And this year, I'm doing a whole classroom. So there are nine children in the class. And it's a pre K four class. So those children will all be going to kindergarten next year. And there is a another classroom in the same school. So that class is not getting the block back program. Gotcha. So we can make a little bit more of a comparison. And hopefully, we'll see something.     Jayson Davies     Yeah. Yeah. So this is your first Oh, this will be like your second time doing research. Officially.    Helene Lieberman     It's part of it's under the same umbrella. It's under the same IRB. Okay. Yeah. But yeah, I took a stab at research, you know, I think, I think it's important to do as a clinician, don't do it a lot. I think we need guidance to do it, or at least I needed guidance to do it, because I'm not an academic. So it's, I think it'd be great for clinicians to pair with academics to, you know, we're seeing things in the clinic. And, you know, we want to make sure that it's working, so we need to have some research on it.    Jayson Davies     Yeah, absolutely. That's awesome. In fact, I think we had an entire episode way back and like, I want to say it's Episode 11, or 13, where we talked with a school based occupational therapy practitioner about like incorporating research into school. And I know it's not easy. So I just want to give you kudos because you've got to go through the district board. You've got to get an IRB, it is not simple.    Helene Lieberman     I'm doing it in a private school because of difficulties with a public school.     Jayson Davies     There you go.     Helene Lieberman     Yeah, it was very, very difficult to do with the public school system.     Jayson Davies     Yeah.     Helene Lieberman     But you got to start somewhere.    Jayson Davies      Yep. Yeah. And some people start with their own kids. Like, I mean, just it's right, you start somewhere, but actually taking that step back. Yeah, we dove into the research that you're kind of working on now. But you must have done some of your own like, even if it wasn't written down some of your own like little internal studies, per se, individual case study. So share a little bit about that, like, Well, what did you do before the official IRB stuff?    Helene Lieberman     So I think I mentioned this before, I don't know if I did, where I had some of the kids on my caseload use the black bag program. And some of the other kids just do whatever I was doing before and nothing different. And I noticed that the data was better for the children using block back. So it was very unofficial and it was more are like my little data sheets checking? Yeah, that's, that's about it.    Jayson Davies     You can get I recently, gosh, I think it was an article posted a few weeks ago, I talked about some of the things that we should be doing as OT practitioners that we honestly don't have time for. And one of them is kind of program management and taking data on our own program. At school based occupational therapy practitioners, we're very good at taking data on an individual student presenting that data on that individual student at said child's IEP. And then we do it again, for students to 355. But we are never able to take that step back to see as a whole, our 50% of our 55 kids actually making progress toward their goals are 75% making progress or their goals. 25%. And and I don't know if you have the opportunity to do that, probably not just because it's so difficult. But that's great that you were at least able to kind of look at some of the kids who were getting the program and some of the kids who weren't and just kind of anecdotally, you know, keeping in your mind and a little checklist that it was working.    Helene Lieberman     Yeah. So it's you have to be very mindful of it. Because, as you know, sometimes days get really busy.    Jayson Davies     Yes, yes, absolutely. So how long did you actually use the program, kind of or the the prototype, I guess you want to call it where you were just printing out things before you decided, you know, what, this is something that is really working, and I need to make this known to other people.    Helene Lieberman     Great questions. So I think, like, for a couple of years, I was doing it on my own. And I have to say I was a little shy thinking everyone's gonna think it's weird, or just doubting myself as to this and the theory I had. But now just looking back on it, I see when I go to conferences, and people are looking at it. They're like, wow, this is so simple, but so effective. So in the beginning, like I said, I was a little shy about it. So took I did it a few years on my own. Then like I said, I got sick of copying everything. So I found a graphic artist to do it. And I used it on my own. And then finally, I got the guts to speak with a printer.   to actually print it in bulk. And, you know, okay, I'm going to do this. And if I if fails, and everyone says it's a dumb idea, then okay, but at least I tried. So it finally got printed in early 2020. And I was probably doing this for at least eight years before that, I would think using what I did on my own. Yeah. And I finally got it printed. And it came to my house in huge pallets. And it was about, yeah, it was a lot. And it was in March of 2020. And I was supposed to show Yep, exactly. showcase it at that a OTA in Boston, I had a booth.     Jayson Davies     Okay, Oh, no.     Helene Lieberman     Yeah, so we had a lot of stuff in our garage for a long, long time. And eventually, you know, I brought it out. But I would say I was shy at the beginning to do it. You know, it's anything new, you have to put, of course, a lot of work into it. And I was still working full time. So I would try to do something on my free time. And then my free time got eaten up by something else. So but now I'm doing it a little bit more. And it it has been well received. So I would say since about 2011 2012. Maybe    Jayson Davies     working on a long time in the works.     Helene Lieberman     Yeah. Yeah.    Jayson Davies      Fantastic, though. That'd be I mean, and you think about right where you are right now, like you're starting out with really selling these I know you've you've already, you've sold some it's not like you haven't sold one, you know, you've sold some they're going out. But even if you never did that there's so many kids that you were able to work with using this program. That I mean, you helped a lot of kids with this program without ever selling a single copy. Right? Like, that's awesome. And now moving forward to think about it. Like all those years of development of you working with it, figuring out what worked, what didn't work, and now others are going to be able to use that to help countless individuals with the program. That's pretty cool to think about. Right?     Helene Lieberman     Yeah. I mean, I think that's one of the reasons we become therapists. And we have a desire to be, you know, to make an impact on somebody, and hopefully, maybe people.     Jayson Davies     Yeah, yeah, definitely. All right. I want to kind of take a step back within the development phase, because this was a question I had, and I probably could have asked it a few questions ago, but I often get asked, Hey, Jason, I'm typing out some worksheets for handwriting, what typing style or what typing fonts should I use? And so I'm sure you have had Have things to look into and kind of trialed out a few things and what do you? What did you try allowed? I guess? Or what did you learn? And what did you end up using?     Helene Lieberman     Um, again, to be honest, I can't remember the font. But if I would go back and do it, I think I'd go to Comic Sans. Why is that? I think it's very easy to read. I think the letters are likely the way we write them. And I just think it's easy on the eye also.     Jayson Davies     Yeah. Yeah. That's smart. I personally, on my website, I use Poppins. Okay. And the sole reason that I use Poppins or not the sole reason, but honestly, there are many that I actually like better. But I use Poppins because of the lowercase a, it actually makes a lowercase A the way that we write it as opposed to    Helene Lieberman     Comic Sans. Yep.     Jayson Davies     Yeah. Yeah. So     Helene Lieberman     that one,    Jayson Davies     don't know how to describe it. I don't even know how to write it if you ask me to. But yeah, it's amazing how much emphasis we put on fonts, whether it's on a website, or even the way that we personally write things. I mean, I've had students and I'm sure you have had to where you ask them to write letter A. And they write that other style a and like, you don't even almost recognize it as an eight you're like, Wait, that's not a that's like a D. And then you actually look at it like, Oh, you're writing the a that you probably see typed out on the iPad every single day or right or reading,    Helene Lieberman     right? And I always accept it. I mean, it's it's a it's an A, it's an A, I think it's harder to write than the other way.    Jayson Davies     I agree. And it throws you off when the first time you see it, like you don't see it every day. You don't see kids writing. That's not usually so    Helene Lieberman     you know what we're talking about drawing the letter. That's what happens. Often when children are not taught. They're looking at it, they understand it's an A, so they're just copying what they see. Which is smart.     Jayson Davies     Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's what we do in life. We copy that's how we learn.     Helene Lieberman     Exactly. That's how I make my.    Jayson Davies     Yeah, yeah. Wow. All right. Well, before I'm trying to make sure that we covered everything about like that, though, how and the why you got here, we obviously cover the why a lot about Common Core. And we discovered or we talked about how you learned a lot about how there wasn't necessarily a program ingrained. And so you started to develop this program to work alongside potentially learning without tears or other programs. Was there anything else that you want to share about kind of the how you develop the program?    Helene Lieberman     Um, I, I did send things to my OT friends. To try out.    Jayson Davies     Yeah, freebies, everyone loves freebies.     Helene Lieberman     Yeah. That was another little, like, pilot testing sort of thing. Try let me know what you think of it.     Jayson Davies     Yeah. That's important    Helene Lieberman     Yeah. And so I guess piloting it. And     Jayson Davies     what were some of the feedback that you felt? I mean, everyone, it's hard to give negative feedback to a friend. So was it all positive?    Helene Lieberman     Definitely too much ink. Okay. Too much into print out? That was for sure.     Jayson Davies     Yeah.    Helene Lieberman      And actually, over the years, part of the feedback was six sizes is too much.     Jayson Davies     Okay,    Helene Lieberman      so our second printing of the letters, which should be in my garage, on a pallet, hopefully, by the end of the week, is has only four sizes as opposed to six. And the other feedback that the eight and a half by 11. Size is too large for portability, especially for school therapists. Because it was heavy. No joke, it was 10 pounds.     Jayson Davies     Oh, wow.     Helene Lieberman     Yeah, it was a lot. And I always kept it in an uppercase binder and a lowercase binder. And I always would just pull what I needed. But other people who go to schools further away, and they need to have, you know, everything they can just pick and choose for the day. So I don't know what the weight is going to be. I could let you know when I get it. But this is going to be five by seven.     Jayson Davies     Okay,     Helene Lieberman     the letter sizes aren't changing, just there's less background of the black. And I have done prototypes of it. And people say that that should be better.    Jayson Davies      a little bit easier to handle and use    Helene Lieberman      Yes. Easier to manage in terms of size and carrying around and storage. For sure. Yeah.     Jayson Davies     Awesome. That's gonna be great. I'm sure. Like I would like I said earlier, I'm sure it's gonna help a lot of therapists, a lot of kids out and, and hopefully teachers and parents too, right. Like this isn't necessarily unique to to therapists.    Helene Lieberman     No, actually, teachers really love it in their centers, because they're laminated and they're like, Okay, you can do this. It doesn't require any explanation. And the teachers do a lot of sensory stuff on there, too. And it can be cleaned. So they're like, Oh, this is so easy, and teachers have a hard job. So giving them something easy.    Jayson Davies     It's good, right? You've been instead of asking as always There's always something that key into a teacher, right? The more you can give them, especially if it's a physical product that they can use. Yeah. You mentioned sensory, we kind of touched on that a little bit and OTs are creative, but what have been some of your favorite sensory activities to use alongside the cards?     Helene Lieberman     I would say wicky sticks is really good paint. I've emptied a nail polish bottle. Yeah, it's the nail polish. Well, I don't know if you polish your nails often enough, but the way just seems at the top seems to give me a great grasp and like, oh, and it is kind of interesting. emptying it out and cleaning out and paint and nail polish bottle. What is it wicky sticks. I've done food on it also pretzels, like, stick pretzels, and in circle pretzels and licorice and sticky things and skill.     Jayson Davies     playdough slime, all that fun stuff? I'm sure.     Helene Lieberman     Yeah, I've actually put it under let's say shaving cream. And the kids have to? Oh, yes. So they have to find the letter under there.    Jayson Davies      Like a sandbox or shaving cream sample?     Helene Lieberman     Yeah, just cover it in something and they have to use their hands to clean it off to find what's under there.    Jayson Davies     All right, for those of us who don't do our nails on a weekly basis, or monthly basis, or yearly basis? I as hearing you say that, is it easy to get off? Like because it dries right. So    Helene Lieberman     I still with paint, I take off the nail polish?    Jayson Davies     Oh, I get what you're saying you're not using nail polish using the polish?    Helene Lieberman     Yeah, actually, I've tried nail polish. If you get it right away, it comes off, it gets a little tougher. But Magic Eraser pretty much can take off anything eventually.     Jayson Davies     True.    Helene Lieberman     and the nail polish just chip off also. So    Jayson Davies     however, I imagined paint is a lot cheaper than nail polish.    Helene Lieberman     It's definitely cheaper and easier. And if the kids get it on their skin, it's much more washable.     Jayson Davies     Yeah, yeah, definitely. And if you have girls on your caseload, they might start painting their nails instead of doing the activity. That's the whole, we're trying to not distract them. But anyways. Awesome. Well, that's great to hear that, that you're moving forward with changing it up a little bit based upon feedback and making it available for everyone. And you just provided some sensory strategies and other activities that the people can try out if they do decide to use something like this. Alright, so that's kind of the program, I want to ask you kind of about supporting other occupational therapy practitioners who maybe have an idea out there, like this took you you already talked about like a decade or so to really kind of have the idea, have multiple ideas, put those ideas into your own practice and various ways and then eventually get to the point where you printed something out. And now you're selling it. OTs have so many ideas like we are constantly adapting a pencil or changing up a stylus or taking keys and moving them around on a keyboard, whatever it might be. So for OTs out there who have maybe tried a few things, do you have any suggestions for them as to you know, maybe one day could be a program? Where should they start?    Helene Lieberman     I think if you have a good idea. Or if you have, let's say if you have a problem, and you solve it with a good idea, other people probably had similar problems, and are looking for something to solve that problem. So I would think that it could be something that's a marketable, I think, talking to other colleagues and asking if they'd have the same problem and ask them to try the new method that you've figured out. And does this work for you? Sometimes it's a one off thing that just works for one child. And I think not being, I guess, scared of the ideas that you have, and being nervous that it's going to be looked at as Oh, that's a strange idea. But if it works, it works. It's not a strange idea.     Jayson Davies     Yeah, yeah. And I think a lot of times as an occupational therapy practitioner, we think, Oh, this was just for one kid. Like, we do it just for one kid. But if it works for one kid, it's very likely that it will work for many kids and the on the kids that you can potentially provide service to or even provide whatever that is to the teacher, the parent, there are likely others out there who may benefit. And so that's where, you know, reaching out to people talking to the teachers. Hey, is this helpful to you? I think that's a great idea.     Helene Lieberman     Yeah.    Jayson Davies     And then what about if they wanted to start getting some data on their product or their idea? Where would you suggest that they started? Not? Not necessarily, obviously, I want to say not necessarily using an IRB, you know, style data, but how do you recommend that they just start getting some anecdotal data?    Helene Lieberman     I would just say use your caseload, use your caseload and keep careful records of what you've done. So In a therapy session, tried to take pictures is something that I did without, of course, the child's face in it, you know, try to take pictures and keep a file and see if you notice a difference, whether it's in hand position or quality or whatever it is that you are, you know, working on, and keeping it in a secure place. And then really looking at it from quarter to quarter. And seeing if it makes a difference than trying maybe on another group of kids. And again, keeping your own anecdotal data, you know, writing it down, and then see if you find a pattern in something.    Jayson Davies     Awesome. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for sharing. Helene, this has been wonderful. We talked about like kind of the problem with handwriting in schools. And then we kind of talked about kind of the why and what you developed and how you developed it on. And then, of course, just kind of going over a little bit about helping anyone out there who may want to develop a program at all. Before I let you go, I obviously want to ask you about where people can learn more about yourself and the blackpack writing program.     Helene Lieberman     Okay, so actually, I'm meeting with someone tonight, to construct my website, I went spin a my next dream, I'm getting a website, it'll be called Black back. riding.com . I already have the name, but I don't have the website so they can look for that I am on Instagram, and Tiktok. And I have a Facebook page, and I will send those to you so they can look it up, I put up handwriting ideas. If somebody is using the program, I'd love feedback, especially if it's positive. You know, that's always good. But you know, negative too, because you learn from absolutely everything. You know, it's not just about you know, positive, you got to take, take it all in. So that's what I'd say the Tick Tock Facebook and Instagram and soon website. And if somebody's interested in getting a free download of blackpack, I did send you a link. So somebody can try it out and get a free download sample. And remember to have toner in your machine in your printer when you do that,    Jayson Davies      yeah, yeah, that's that's a it does take up some toner. So follow up to this really quickly. Maybe we should have talked about this earlier. But what about using the black back program as a PDF on an iPad? Is it similar? Or is it very different?    Helene Lieberman     So interestingly enough, it hasn't worked that I've seen. Okay, but I was just talking to somebody who wants to do an app with black back. And so that's something I'm thinking. Yeah, I mean, I guess you could,why not?     Jayson Davies     Yeah. Yeah. I mean,     Helene Lieberman     you're not gonna get like on some of the other apps, when you write on it, you're not going to get the same kind of results. But it's still good practice.    Jayson Davies     Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So very cool. Well, Helene, thank you so much for sharing all of your information with us your wisdom, really appreciate it. And again, I know that the black bag handwriting program is gonna help a lot of people out there. So I will put all the links to all the different things that we talked about today, everything from the right rate stylist to the different apps that we talked about to of course, your website, your Instagram, your Twitter, and all that over on the show notes at OTSchoolHouse.com slash episode 141. So that'll be an easy place to go find all of it, including that free sample of the black back handwriting program that you can get for yourself. So thank you so much. Really appreciate you being here.     Helene Lieberman     And thank you for having me appreciate the opportunity.     Jayson Davies     Absolutely. Thanks.     Helene Lieberman     All right, have a great day. Bye.    Jayson Davies     One last time, a big thank you to Helene Lieberman for coming on and sharing her experiences as a school based occupational therapy practitioner, and as the creator of the black backhand reading program. If you'd like to learn more about Helene and this program that she has created, be sure to check out the show notes at OTSchoolHouse.com slash episode one for one. And also if you really enjoy and just love occupational therapy and school based occupational therapy, be sure to check out our community for school based occupational therapy practitioners at OTSchoolHouse.com slash collab where we have over 100 school based occupational therapy practitioners, learning and growing together to be the best school based OT practitioners they can be. We would love to have you as our newest member and grow together. Thanks again for tuning in. We'll see you next time.    Amazing Narrator     Thank you for listening to the OT schoolhouse podcast. For more ways to help you and your students succeed right now. Head on over to OTSchoolHouse.com Until next time, class is dismissed.  Click on the file below to download the transcript to your device. Thanks for listening to the OT Schoolhouse Podcast. A podcast for school-based OT practitioners, by school-based OT practitioners! Be sure to subscribe to the OT Schoolhouse email list & get access to our free downloads of Gray-Space paper and the Occupational Profile for school-based OTs. Subscribe now! Thanks for visiting the podcast show notes! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts , Google Podcast , Spotify , or wherever you listen to podcasts Click here to view more episodes of the OT Schoolhouse Podcast